Updated 2/19/2014 Anti-RMT Self-Found Tags for ALL Leagues in All Windows + SF Maps (other details)

"

Perfect_Black wrote:

A part of me simply thinks that a SF tag system is not even worth it, and anyone who plays primarily or 100% SF should just be proud within themselves for persevering, truly experiencing the game content for what it is (drop rates and all), and not giving in to the temptation of quick item progression.

You can brag, you can lie, but you know the truth, and that perceptually sets you apart from others.

I agree. They should be proud within themselves. However, since most PoE users are very complex creatures (being human,) I wanted to present the SF Tag idea to those who don't accept what's in themselves to be good enough, for those who want to show off proof they are indeed Self-Found.

In the eyes of certain players, what they think of themselves is boring, yet what others think of them is more gratifying. Whether or not you or me agrees with how these players look at it that way, that's just the way it is for some players.

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

Unless I'm missing something here, please be more specific.

Scenario:

Character 1 is a non-SF character
Character 2 is a SF character

Character 1 and 2 are from different accounts. This means that they can map together.

Character 1 trades for mapping resources; maybe even RMT for them.
Character 2 joins character 1's map
Character 2 just benefited from the resources (even possible RMT resources) that Character 1 provided.



Now if one person wanted to own both those accounts, they would be able to essentially trade for their SF character's benefit (that SF character's map pool). This would mean that there isn't really any way to know whether or not a SF tagged player is trading for some resources or not, making the whole point of the tag kind of pointless.

"

DirkAustin wrote:

Lol, now people, a hanfful of people, want HCL tags to "prove" they play hard core? Cant you just play hard core with out taking the ladder or any bragging rights into consideration?

People that invest too much time over thinking things like "oh im hard core i need a fair ladder or a tag" need a job or separate gaming fun with work seriousness.

9/10 because I think you actually believe in this logic when thinking about what a SFL/SF tag is about.

"

DirkAustin wrote:

Lol, now people, a hanfful of people, want SFL tags to "prove" they play self found? Cant you just play self found with out taking the ladder or any bragging rights into consideration?

I basically never trade, thats why i dont know how to flip or why everything costs what people rmt the most which are exalteds.

People that invest too much time over thinking things like "oh im self found i need a fair ladder or a tag" need a job or separate gaming fun with work seriousness.

What do you mean now. I understand what you're saying, and I'm not disagreeing. I have already addressed players getting an ego boost from something like SF tags (or a Self-Found League) is no different from players getting an ego boost from bragging about what they got via gear.

I also said that just because players are Self-Found does not always mean everyone's going Self-Found for the sake of getting an ego boost.

Furthermore, Self-Found League = no proof needed since it would be mandatory that everyone is Self-Found by default anyway. That being said, players playing in a Self-Found League are still in some way, shape, or form distinguishing themselves from other players (whether intentional or not) by playing in a Self-Found League.

However (again,) I don't recommend that particular league for reasons already stated in the OP.

Some of the above stated also applies to SF tags, but the difference (again) with the idea of SF-tagged players is it does not create player separation like a Self-Found League by leaching other players from other leagues.

GGG has already made it quite clear they're not accepting any suggestions / ideas that completely separate players from one another, hence, the idea of SF tags by allowing SF-tagged players to play with players who are not SF-tagged.

On another note, going off your assumption on only 'a handful of players' is quite inaccurate since players who are Self-Found (whether through a Self-Found League or SF tags) are still distinguishing themselves from other players who are not SF whether or not that's the reason they're Self-Found.

2ofSpades quotes HeavyMetalGear

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

Unless I'm missing something here, please be more specific.

"

2ofSpades wrote:

Scenario:

Character 1 is a non-SF character
Character 2 is a SF character

Character 1 and 2 are from different accounts. This means that they can map together.

Character 1 trades for mapping resources; maybe even RMT for them.
Character 2 joins character 1's map
Character 2 just benefited from the resources (even possible RMT resources) that Character 1 provided.

Now if one person wanted to own both those accounts, they would be able to essentially trade for their SF character's benefit (that SF character's map pool). This would mean that there isn't really any way to know whether or not a SF tagged player is trading for some resources or not, making the whole point of the tag kind of pointless.

You read and see a half and not a whole. You still don't get what SF tags are all about in the OP.

As if I haven't already exhausted explanation enough, let me try and be more specific since you're looking at SF tags in a more complex way than need be.

Your scenario re-written, and what really happens:

"

2ofSpades wrote:

Character 1 is a non-SF character
Character 2 is a SF character

Character 1 and 2 are from different accounts. This means that they can map together.

Yes, they can map together, but that doesn't amount to hill of beans since 2 SF characters from different accounts in an actual Self-Found League wouldn't be any different via two characters being able to map together.

On another note, RMT is not an issue with SF tags. There is no money to be made. Why? Because SF-tagged gear cannot be SOLD on RMT (Real-Money Trading) sites for the very reason SF-tagged gear traded to other SF-tagged players, or players who are not SF-tagged, results in the immediate disappearance of the SF Tag (as explained in my OP.)

The only way SF-tagged gear can be worn by another SF-tagged character is if both characters are on the same account. However, if you got two computers with two separate accounts, per se, one SF-tagged character from Account 1 trading with another SF-tagged character from Account 2, it then incurs the penalty of losing the SF Tag on both the character(s) and all traded items between those characters on the separate accounts.

"

2ofSpades wrote:

Character 1 trades for mapping resources; maybe even RMT for them.
Character 2 joins character 1's map
Character 2 just benefited from the resources (even possible RMT resources) that Character 1 provided.

The issue regarding RMT is a moot point to make for reasons already stated. In addition to that, when character 1 trades, who is character 1 trading with? Character 2, right?

Therefore, no matter if your characters are on the same or separate accounts, non SF-tagged characters cannot benefit from SF-tagged items since SF-tagged items cannot be worn on characters without an SF Tag.

Furthermore, SF-tagged players cannot benefit from non SF-tagged items (vise versa) since SF-tagged players attempting to wear non SF-tagged gear incurs the penalty of losing the SF Tag on both the player and the items.

P.S. My OP has been updated in the NEW / Important SF Tag Notes (how it works) Updated 1/17/2014 spoiler regarding account exploits, and RMT not being an issue with SF tags.

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

On another note, RMT is not an issue with SF tags. There is no money to be made. Why? Because SF-tagged gear cannot be SOLD on RMT (Real-Money Trading) sites for the very reason SF-tagged gear traded to another SF-tagged players, or a player who is not SF-tagged, results in the immediate disappearance of the SF Tag (as explained in my OP.)

Oh, so I see the solution to my problem with this system of tagging. The maps would also have to have SF tags on them and the currencies use on those maps would also have to have SF tags to be able to roll a SF map. If SF players are only able to play SF maps without losing their tag, than I would enjoy this system of a SF tag.

PS. My points had nothing to do with selling sf items or equipable items at all. They only dealt with the items used to roll a map that another character (SF player) would join in on.

"

2ofSpades wrote:

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

On another note, RMT is not an issue with SF tags. There is no money to be made. Why? Because SF-tagged gear cannot be SOLD on RMT (Real-Money Trading) sites for the very reason SF-tagged gear traded to another SF-tagged players, or a player who is not SF-tagged, results in the immediate disappearance of the SF Tag (as explained in my OP.)

Oh, so I see the solution to my problem with this system of tagging. The maps would also have to have SF tags on them and the currencies use on those maps would also have to have SF tags to be able to roll a SF map. If SF players are only able to play SF maps without losing their tag, than I would enjoy this system of a SF tag.

PS. My points had nothing to do with selling sf items or equipable items at all. They only dealt with the items used to roll a map that another character (SF player) would join in on.

Genius... absolutely genius. I now understand what you're saying regarding maps, but it is through my misunderstanding you that I explained things better in my OP.

P.S. I will add the idea of SF-tagged maps in my OP and how they work! (for SF-tagged players only.)

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

P.S. I will add the idea of SF-tagged maps in my OP and how they work! (for SF-tagged players only.)

Ok. I don't really mind if other SF players map with non-SF player, because otherwise, it would split the community into SF and non-sf. This would be the same as just making a SFL. Thus, SF tagged players should be able to play with non-SF tagged players. If a SF player joins a non-SF map, they should loss their SF tag. That doesn't mean that they cannot play with other players who have non-SF gear on.

If this is the case, I would fully support the SF tag alternative to a SFL.

Edit:

Nvm, you answered my question in the update:

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

P.S. Since I didn't want player separation between SF-tagged players and non SF-tagged players, allowing these players to party together is the only way to keep everyone playing together since GGG will not OK an idea that promotes player separation.