[Poll] Self Found League - SFL /FINISHED

"

MrRoundTree wrote:

GREAT post BolshoiToo. You have basically summed up my entire arpg experience dating back to D1 lol. I also agree that I wouldn't want higher drop rates, as that is really not much more satisfying or challenging then just going ahead and trading for gear.

I really want to play multiplayer in an arpg, but the whole mentality of what defines a "hardcore" or "good" player in arpgs seems all backwards to me. Much of it is the entire paradox of "loot makes the player", which in reality, just makes the game easier for that player. :) The challenge, to me, is making the best out of what you're dealt and seeing how well you can make it work. I will never understand how anyone can be impressed with someone who has bought or traded for the best items and then facerolls everything. I just want to play with other like-minded people and not have to deal with all of the backwards logic.

That's what I don't understand though.

You can do this.

Find a group of friends or people who want to play self-found and only play with one another or trade.

Done? You don't need an league to do it yourself, if I want to play the game without using a weapon I don't need a weaponless league to play it. If I don't like crafting I don't need a no-crafting league have them boost all of the drop rates of the items and make items roll better because I dislike how rich people craft better stuff then me. You can't compare yourself to a player who trades and say that your behind because you don't trade and it's unfair. Trading will, and ALWAYS be beneficial because the simple fact you can turn any drop into drops you can use.

I am now confused on what the "SFL" crowd wants. Reading on previous threads, this is what the SFL stands for (I think):

SFL
- Party is enabled but with Permanent Allocation
- no trading
- buff drops (I am against this)



I hope someone can enlighten me (or link me to an "official SFL thread")

"

Ocylix wrote:

I am now confused on what the "SFL" crowd wants. Reading on previous threads, this is what the SFL stands for (I think):

SFL
- Party is enabled but with Permanent Allocation
- no trading
- buff drops (I am against this)

my initial thoughts

without the drop buff, SFL is pretty much any league, just don't trade or party without PA. will reserve further opinion on the matter after doing research

I hope someone can enlighten me (or link me to an "official SFL thread")

There is no definition.

Every single "SFL" person would want the game to be in a different way or modified exactly how they like it. You cannot generalized what a SFL wants other then what they dislike.

Which is:
1. How it's unfair people trading get better stuff then them, because even if they did get 10 good drops it's unfair that they can only use 1 of them while the trading people can use 1 and trade the other 9.
2. How it's unfair that drop rates sucks in this game because they can't be magically boosted with 1 farming run to do end game maps or find GG gear all by myself with varying levels of acceptable means of how often a person should find a upgrade. Which is ironic since most trading/party player will never make it to 70+ maps either.
3. I dislike trading or interacting with other people, and I find it unfair that people that do trade and interact people have benefits over me.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

That's what I don't understand though.

You can do this.

Find a group of friends or people who want to play self-found and only play with one another or trade.

Done? You don't need an league to do it yourself, if I want to play the game without using a weapon I don't need a weaponless league to play it. If I don't like crafting I don't need a no-crafting league have them boost all of the drop rates of the items and make items roll better because I dislike how rich people craft better stuff then me. You can't compare yourself to a player who trades and say that your behind because you don't trade and it's unfair. Trading will, and ALWAYS be beneficial because the simple fact you can turn any drop into drops you can use.

Sort of... yes. I HAVE done this all the way back to D1, but it gets boring playing solo. If there was a separate league, then yes I would be much happier and motivated to play with others in public games. In theory, yes it is possible to do what you are saying. In practice... it sucks and ends up being primarily a single player experience. I suppose you are right that something could be organized, with an honor system and remembering which people on your friend's list are which etc. but meh...

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

"

Ocylix wrote:

I am now confused on what the "SFL" crowd wants. Reading on previous threads, this is what the SFL stands for (I think):

SFL
- Party is enabled but with Permanent Allocation
- no trading
- buff drops (I am against this)

my initial thoughts

without the drop buff, SFL is pretty much any league, just don't trade or party without PA. will reserve further opinion on the matter after doing research

I hope someone can enlighten me (or link me to an "official SFL thread")

There is no definition.

Every single "SFL" person would want the game to be in a different way or modified exactly how they like it. You cannot generalized what a SFL wants other then what they dislike.

Which is:
1. How it's unfair people trading get better stuff then them
2. How it's unfair that drop rates sucks in this game because they can't be magically boosted with 1 farming run to do end game maps
3. I dislike trading or interacting with other people, and I find it unfair that people that do trade and interact people have benefits over me.

Bingo.

Some want buffed drop rates, some don't. Some are indifferent. Some want party play enabled, some want party play disabled.

Most of the time, the big contenders are 1 + 2.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

That's what I don't understand though.

You can do this.

Find a group of friends or people who want to play self-found and only play with one another or trade.

Done? You don't need an league to do it yourself, if I want to play the game without using a weapon I don't need a weaponless league to play it. If I don't like crafting I don't need a no-crafting league have them boost all of the drop rates of the items and make items roll better because I dislike how rich people craft better stuff then me. You can't compare yourself to a player who trades and say that your behind because you don't trade and it's unfair. Trading will, and ALWAYS be beneficial because the simple fact you can turn any drop into drops you can use.

No you cannot do this. It's been proven on multiple threads that self-found is currently not possible to reach the current endgame or even progress to mapping safely, and that's in standard league. By comparison hardcore league is a lot less needed, because you can easily simulate hardcore in softcore just by deleting your characters. However for self-found to be viable especially in hardcore a lot of changes to drops or quest rewards need to happen to balance out removing economy from a league. SFL is by far the best solution for all of this.

"

NeoRussia wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

That's what I don't understand though.

You can do this.

Find a group of friends or people who want to play self-found and only play with one another or trade.

Done? You don't need an league to do it yourself, if I want to play the game without using a weapon I don't need a weaponless league to play it. If I don't like crafting I don't need a no-crafting league have them boost all of the drop rates of the items and make items roll better because I dislike how rich people craft better stuff then me. You can't compare yourself to a player who trades and say that your behind because you don't trade and it's unfair. Trading will, and ALWAYS be beneficial because the simple fact you can turn any drop into drops you can use.

No you cannot do this. It's been proven on multiple threads that self-found is currently not possible to reach the current endgame or even progress to mapping safely, and that's in standard league. By comparison hardcore league is a lot less needed, because you can easily simulate hardcore in softcore just by deleting your characters. However for self-found to be viable especially in hardcore a lot of changes to drops or quest rewards need to happen to balance out removing economy from a league. SFL is by far the best solution for all of this.

And it has been proven by maybe people that you can bear the game in vendor/self-found gear. As well as one of the most popular guides on the forums that are for beginners are almost completely advertised as gear independent and powerful enough to do maps. Let's not generalize things to be in your favor, the only difference is that it takes more time to be self-found because you are not trading.

Also outside of maps and not knowing what bosses do, you know hardcore isn't that hard if you take your time and grind 6+ levels above the area level.

Also viability compare to what? Other people that party and trade? Because you will never be as viable as them.

Also your missing the point, SFL is so over-complicated and encompassing so many different expectations and needs for SFL person, that even if they made it. Who to say the majority of the SFL people would even be happy with what version they came up with?

Like I said when they come out with custom leagues you can pay for, be happy to request your own version of the game.

Not everyone agrees that hardcore characters should transfer to standard, but that didn't stop GGG from making a hardcore league. They can decide on the details after they decide that the premise is a good one.

B, I choose you!

@RagnarokChu and zachatta

thanks for that. justifies my confusion :(



Any thoughts from an SFL enthusiast?