A self-found purist's feedback [Long]
" Irony. Its actually easier to progress in endgame for those who prefer to trade - ie. "instant gratification casuals" - than it is for those who prefer to grind the ARPG way. :P GGG cant make the game more casual than it already is. They can only make it better for those who like slow, but steady ARPG progress through difficulty and getting rewarded for your gameplay time yourself, instead of buying rewards from trade chat. Faceroll grouping and trading = totally casual. Solo self-found progression = real hardcore. When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo#1824 on Nov 19, 2013, 6:07:49 AM
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" Need a solo league where currency can't be traded :>. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Nov 19, 2013, 6:11:37 AM
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" No, not necessarily. We need a proper risk/reward progression for our time investment and not get f*** by a contrived endgame implemented as a currency sink, which hinders ARPG-ers, but is totally trivial for shoppers. I have enough self control, to play solo self-found in the current leagues. If only endgame wasn’t such a FU in the face of those who want to progress trough it by themselves, without short-cuts. When night falls
She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness |
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" Not really true. Closed beta was more "solo self found" friendly than the current build or ob. GGG didn't care about "the ecnomy" during the closed beta (at least not that much). |
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I'm an absolute newbie, just reached merc after an excruciating Dominus fight with a melee shadow (shame on me). I've been playing and enjoying (and supporting) the game on lower difficulties --- solo & self found. The wall I hit with act 3 cruel, the scarcity of drops and orbs to craft semi-decent gear, and the things I read on the forums are making me stop and think.
Parallel to the "self found league" (a kind of... ironborn, right?) and mirroring the same feeling from the opposite pov, there's the request for an efficient AH. There were "early" signs of the direction the game was taking (e.g. http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/324054) As things are now, I'm seeking advice from experienced players who enjoy self-found playstyle. Should I assume that trading is basically mandatory and self-found is not viable (putting in a reasonable amount of time, not hundreds and hundreds of hours grinding the same area) from levels 50-55 onwards? (My apologies, I realize it's slightly OT and I don't contribute much, but I have little experience yet to make good points) |
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Depends how you interpret "viable." You can complete the game on merciless without trading and get to fairly high levels (I made it to 85 in a month before quitting) playing purely self-found. However, that's not really what the game is about. The point of an ARPG isn't to complete the campaign, it's to build up wealth and a strong character through long-term play, and that's where self-found completely collapses due to the absurd scarcity of good gear and currency.
All of PoE's depth is gated behind excessive trading. You can forget about crafting, about any build that requires a specific high-level unique, about getting to the later endgame maps, and anything else that can be considered the real endgame of PoE. These things very literally are not available to a self-found player. Sure, you could be unrealistically lucky and find the right combination of severeal ultra-rare items required to properly run one of the really worthwhile builds, but this is so improbable that the possibility barely deserves to be acknowledged. All of these things are only realistically possible by engaging not just in trading but in heavy, constant engrossment in the game's economy. The amount of currency it takes to actually craft a worthwhile item is absurd, we're talking about wealth that you wouldn't be able to find yourself if you played the same character for an entire year. Likewise, a self-found player is unlikely to ever get past level 74 maps, and will probably never be able to do regular farming runs of any map level above 70. To do so requires an investment of chaos orbs and chisels that can't possibly be sustained in any other way than to spend considerable time every day selling all your loot to other players. This is what we don't like. It's not just that we're staunchly against the idea trading, it's that the facilities for trading are so terrible in this game. It takes so long and is so unsupported that we'd rather not play the game at all if that's the alternative. The game isn't good enough if you don't trade, and the game's trading system isn't good enough to demand that everyone makes extensive use of it. It's not unreasonable to demand that a game is either fully playable without trading or has adequate trading facilities, but neither is the case in PoE. To be a self-found player is very much to be a second-rate player, and now that GGG have begun to officially shun and denounce this playstyle, it's hard to feel anything but unwanted. They haven't just ignored us, they've plainly announced that they're against our chosen style of play and refuse to support it in any way. It's frankly appalling to see a company treat its customers so poorly, especially since we're not asking for something unreasonable -- on the contrary, we're asking for something that should really be there already. Last edited by Jakabov#1183 on Nov 19, 2013, 8:01:20 AM
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" I nearly answered to the irony myself. But I'm tired of repeating the obvious to GGG and to their intended market (the not so hardcore gamers that are all too happy to take the pretence). Any way, Morbo said it. Casually casual.
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Spoiler
" Thank you for the most helpful answer. In a certain way, the fact that they officially shun self-found smells a lot like... *not* D3 but, before that, games like EQ2 and Vanguard:SoH; the certain way being an attempt to target (initially) and expand (subsequently) a tighter community of long term players by forcing a specific playstyle that involves "social" interaction. It can be partying, it can be economy and trading; very far from being actual social activities insofar as they are mandatory. A very common trend lately, probably a rightful attempt given the quasi-MMO nature of the game. It can be successful to varying degrees. The lack of appropriate trading systems is not encouraging right now, but GGG is out to make money, so I bet it won't be long till an official AH (maybe with another name) is set up. Guess I'll abandon ship for a few months and be back when my lazy bum can play AH without hassle. Before closing, for what it's worth, I give my support to a... petition for self-found (or at least better trading). Last edited by skewfields#5600 on Nov 19, 2013, 8:51:31 AM
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I add my voice to those who request a self-found league.
I'm ready to pay for this SF league, I don't care. |
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" I don't think the D3 expansion will cost too much. But if you are actually after a loot find aRPG, an aRPG that rewards for killing beasties, that offers progression, end game for everyone who thinks they are up to it and actually allows hardcore aRPG playing, no short cuts, I'd be looking there. This is, and always will be, a path of least resistance, casual, instant grats, faceroll, shopping sim with 6 man groups squashing content that could have been a challenge if not for the model. I honestly wouldn't even expect to be able to create a real aRPG loot-find mode when/if the paid leagues happen. It would hinder the pretence that is the current 'aRPG for hardcore gamers by hardcore gamers' (lol, I can't even type that without cracking up laughing). D3 RoS is the return to the genre, as absurd as that would have sounded a year ago. Casually casual. Last edited by TheAnuhart#4741 on Nov 19, 2013, 10:03:15 AM
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