How do YOU define "pay to win"?
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Game coming to OB soon, and I am sure GGG are looking into what other microtransactions they can sell in the store. Since the game has officially chosen a stance against "pay to win" elements in the game (and thereby in the shop) I am curious what you think is "pay to win".
The reason I ask, is that the whole F2P industry still hasnt really agreed on a shared definition, and neither has players. And for the most predominant definitions, the discrepancy between what a majority of developers call "pay to win" and what a majority of players call "pay to win", is quite disturbing. For me - and how most developers look at it - it means that if some in-game content is available only through spending real life currency, and that content gives me a distinct advantage compared to players without it, then that is a strong "pay to win" element. If it doesnt, or if the content is also available without spending, then it isnt "pay to win". There is a special case with certain F2P games, where the time invested barrier becomes so steep that it effectively blocks non-paying users from progressing. In that case, I would call it "pay to win" Some examples just to ilustrate: Pay to win - if I can buy the sword of uberness only with real life currency, that is clearly better than all other options, then its "pay to win". - if I can buy certain skills only with real life currency, then its "pay to win". - if i can access certain areas, with special drops, only through real life currency, then its "pay to win" Not pay to win - buying extra stash tabs is just about convenience and saves time, so not "pay to win". - buying boosters that increases XP gain (outside of race or pvp environments) merely saves time, so not "pay to win" - buying full respecs is merely a convenience and saves me time, so not "pay to win" I am sure there are very different opinions on this. Other games where this has been discussed: http://www.mmobomb.com/forum/free-mmorpg/what-game-do-you-think-is-a-pay-to-win/?PHPSESSID=a071f314ae905822b607626549b4d753 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?6112-Why-SHOULDN-T-free-to-play-games-be-pay-to-win&s=bacee031dc7999beeacb119160a10826 http://forums.offensivecombat.com/discussion/1599/what-is-your-definition-of-pay-to-win | |
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Everything you listed is an option of pay-to-win in some way or another, some more than others, it all comes down to efficiency.
A great weapon or skill will make you kill faster and level up quicker at a given level, a booster does exactly the same, it makes you more efficient or gives better rewards for your time and effort. The only reason people don't share these definitions is because they want to sell shit (or buy shit). |
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" These, Sir, are Pay to Win... at least for me ^^ A lot of players will want to compete outside of races (be among the firsts to reach level 100 on SC/HC default leagues) If you can buy any fraction of the time it takes for your char to reach any level, it's Pay to Win. Being able to fully respec your character at no ingame cost/time investment makes it potentially good on any map/content, and you got an edge to complete any map/dungeon/boss faster, it's Pay to Win. Take care out there. Last edited by Lagruell on Dec 16, 2012, 1:58:07 PM
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More or less any modification that changes your character directly is pay to win.
This means anything that modifies their damage, defense, or rates of gain. This is the reason why the item match recipe is/was changed... due to stash tabs... to make it more mathematically equivalent to other manual methods. If you have account problems please [url="http://www.pathofexile.com/support"]Email Support[/url]
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Pay to Win for me is anything that has an IMPACT in game (with the gameplay etc...).
More loot/xp has an impact in game = Pay to Win. My character has dyed armor = no impact = not Pay to Win. | |
" That would mean that PoE is Pay to Win. I agree. They restricted bank space and allow you to buy as much of it as you want, and when you combine that with the vendor recipe system, which gives you more loot for being able to store more stuff to make the right combinations, its P2W by definition. As far the definition of P2W. It actually is already defined. If you can buy anything that in any way gives your character/s an advantage, its P2W. Its pretty simple. " Buying stash tabs in this game especially is P2W. Buying boosters gives you an advantage of some sort. P2W. Buying full respecs would be the same as a booster, possibly saving you a lot of time. P2W. Pay to Win isn't restricted to direct effects. It never has been and never will be. The definition has been set for gamers for a long time. Some people simply refuse to see it because they like a particular game that does it and they want to defend it. Back in the day, Free to Play was defined as offering 100% of all content *AND* features(including the inventory system) for free, with zero restrictions, and turning a profit purely on cosmetics/fluff/accountservices. It was proven to work provided you made a good game. Then companies realized you can possibly make a little extra by distorting the F2P tag in numerous ways. GGG and PoE are just one more example of this. It is definitely not a case of "ethical microtransactions", and by basic definition, is Pay to Win. | |
" I'd kinda like to see your reasoning behind this being a P2W tactic. I'm not doing more dmg, nor or taking less. I'm not gaining levels or finding loot faster than you. I'm not getting items that you couldnt, or have any sort of advantage in the PvP OR PvE mode of play. I simply have more room for more gear for other chars. It doenst make me win, it give me more options. Now...if having more options is the way to win...I'd like to play the game you are, cuz this game already has a shit ton of options. 'It is good to contact a moderator if you feel someone is being a twat' Charan, Forum Moderator
Sometimes, we have to cross a ditch. Sometimes, we have to cross an ocean.-Rhys, GGG | |
" You do. " See, thats the thing, you don't get increased damage directly, but you may keep more stuff to trade for more currency and achieve better equipment-status that way. Also up until not long ago, there was this alchemy-orb for same-name items, favouring those with more stash tabs. PoE is a P2W, however to a minor degree such that i personally can accept it. No P2W would be EXCLUSIVELY graphic changes. Last edited by Rayshan on Dec 16, 2012, 4:10:21 PM
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Valid point Ray......its not exactly direct, but again.....if you noticed, they have been changing recipes and such in order to make them more difficult to obtain, making it more on par with just finding them. You COULD just save a bunch of crap gear and sell it for certain orbs....but it would take just about as long as just finding the orbs themselves.
I still dont think Stash tabs alone are pay to win, not like exp and passive resets, but Each person is entitled to their own opinion, and its based on the idea of an interpretation of the phrase Pay To Win. I think Pay to Win is something that affect directly, other feel like its any kind of char affect that isnt solely cosmetic. This game in its heart is still never going to be pay to win, like other games out there(MapleStory, D3, WoW) 'It is good to contact a moderator if you feel someone is being a twat' Charan, Forum Moderator Sometimes, we have to cross a ditch. Sometimes, we have to cross an ocean.-Rhys, GGG Last edited by Zalm on Dec 16, 2012, 4:15:59 PM
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" I am glad you brought that up. As has been mentioned above, then the extra stash tabs are also "pay to win" since it allows you to easier complete recipes, thereby speeding up your crafting and your item progresion through now. So you think PoE is already a P2W game? Last edited by CiceroSUN on Dec 16, 2012, 4:18:41 PM
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