How do YOU define "pay to win"?

Some of vendor recipes requiring massive amounts of stash space are definitely pay2win.

I give you $$$, you give me a tangible advantage over those who did not.

LOL? xp boost not pay to win? are you stupid? :P

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Phonics wrote:

Some of vendor recipes requiring massive amounts of stash space are definitely pay2win.

I hope your just trolling. You can just make Mule Characters or just create a account and trade items back and forth to your desire. It gives the exact same effect, with the only difference being having it all on one character feels a little bit more organized and slightly easier.

Account are free to make, each comes with stash space as well as space on the characters on them.

I had tons of mule accounts in diablo 2, more tabs is only a convenience and is not pay to win.

My reasoning on the subject.

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divinitywithin67 wrote:

LOL? xp boost not pay to win? are you stupid? :P

Yeah, I think any sort of xp boost is pay to win. I have played games like this and when you don't have a boost running you don't even want to play, because it's in-efficient.

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BDtetra wrote:

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Phonics wrote:

Some of vendor recipes requiring massive amounts of stash space are definitely pay2win.

I hope your just trolling. You can just make Mule Characters or just create a account and trade items back and forth to your desire. It gives the exact same effect, with the only difference being having it all on one character feels a little bit more organized and slightly easier.

What about the chrome addon that tells you exactly what you can make? That only works with one character. If that is removed I agree it'll be fine.

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Phonics wrote:

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BDtetra wrote:

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Phonics wrote:

Some of vendor recipes requiring massive amounts of stash space are definitely pay2win.

I hope your just trolling. You can just make Mule Characters or just create a account and trade items back and forth to your desire. It gives the exact same effect, with the only difference being having it all on one character feels a little bit more organized and slightly easier.

What about the chrome addon that tells you exactly what you can make? That only works with one character. If that is removed I agree it'll be fine.

with respect, If you try hard enough, you can find a problem with anything. People laid out a reasonable solutions. And GGG has to have some way to finance the game, their salaries, servers, forums.

The default tab settings is 4, a very reasonable amount. You can make Mules and have them at your stash in under 5 minutes. And if need be, make a alternate account :). All of these solutions are 100% free and totally acceptable in GGG's eyes.

GGG is looking to make money, not gouge every cent from us. Which is very fair, especially now a days with so many unethical companies ruining the industry.


Good look man, I hope you find peace with you stash space :)

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BDtetra wrote:

I find it really interesting that a lot of people that actually donated a decent amount (including me) are actually against Pay 2 Win, while a lot of the people that are arguing that X is not pay to win are actually f2p players. Not that it probably reflects the game itself, I just found it pretty interesting to think about.

True. I'm a donator (only at the $25 level, but considering a last minute upgrade to bronze), and I definitely don't mind spending money in a f2p game. However, I also believe in a level playing field, and adding a pay to win mechanic breaks that. Even though I can afford to buy boost items, I don't think they're fair. I'd go so far as to say that adding pay to win items to a game would cause me to stop playing.

Up until now, I've rejected the whole f2p model, mostly because of the giant pile of Korean/Chinese MMOs that make pay to win a central part of their income strategy. However, games like PoE are demonstrating that a company can make game-sustaining revenue by selling cosmetic items alone.

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Damaniel wrote:

Up until now, I've rejected the whole f2p model, mostly because of the giant pile of Korean/Chinese MMOs that make pay to win a central part of their income strategy. However, games like PoE are demonstrating that a company can make game-sustaining revenue by selling cosmetic items alone.

Same here m8.But you have no idea how many games had the same rumor around no p2w bla bla and in a couple months turned to shet started adding only cash stuff.
I surely hope this time is different i personally dont belive it untill i see it,if this games passes at least 1 year without pay 2 win then there is hope for the mmo industry.
Cause lately ive given up to all games bcuz p2w f2p/b2p/p2p i cant stand any of them anymore.
The server hosting costs aare not that high,and most of these game companies get their money back 10 times because of p2w.
D3 quited
Gw2 quited
Vindictus Quited
9Dragons quited
NFS world quit
TERA quit

I personally will quit MMO for ever if 2013 doesnt bring any decent non heavy pay 2 win maybe ligh pay2 win will be OK,or none if posible, i have nothing to see here anymore.
I will definately support a lot anygame that i enjoy,has as little to none p2w,has Developer that listens to players needs and so on.Ill buy even useless stuff if i actually enjoy the game including PoE.

And how i define P2W any $$ feature that gives big advantages to other players,including stuff like mounts(faster moving) and pets with stats, an old game ex: 9dragons you would buy a premium you would have 25%xp + stats bonus,and there were also 100% bonus cards for xp/drop both xtremly expensive,also games that have weapon/gear system completely dependant to item malls,example is Vindictus ,9Dragons,Cabal.
Pills for boosts hp/speed = p2w , Passes for dungeons or any other important item that must be farmed = p2w.