Combat should be more intense than spamming 1 move

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Fruz wrote:

Taking 3 sec to give a hit on something when one is trained to fight ?
Completely unnatural and illogical, unless there is some kinda magic involved.


Changing monster's armor for a single skill ?
lol, do you really, really think that devs would do such a thing for a single skill ?

No, definitely not. Plus it would be anything but a solution.

The thread you linked has 2 pages, looks like it's already dead. If it was a real problem, it would be different imho ( just more people would complain ).

Proposing things such as your support gem is already much more constructive than complaining here.

Ok, i see you dont understand what I am saying.

Why would you wait 3 sec? This thread and my suggestion is to make more useful to use more dmg skills, you think to much in PoE way of combat, trying to spam a skill that is not for spamming xD. You would have one spam skill to do dmg (like cleave or something), but use your second skill for doing huge dmg at cost of cool down (like sweep). It means you will cycle around different dmg skills. So yee, there is nothing unnatural or illogical about it. I mean it's something it's already done in other arpg, including d2.

Single skill? No, but for a support gem yes. Every item you would link to that gem and you use it on monsters would buff their armor for the amount of % increase in dmg so the skill are not unbalanced and OP. And it would be a solution.

There are more threads like that, but i really dont want to search for them, they pop up here and there, so there are people that see the problem, unlike what you said.

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Fruz wrote:

PoE has been designed to be a niche game, because it has been designed to fit hardcord gamers, or at least gamers spending a LOT of time on it.

This is silly. GGG made a game they would want to play. They did not set out with pretensions or elitist aspirations. It just so happened that the game found success among a niche of players who also enjoyed Diablo 2. Diablo 2 was by no means a niche game, it was highly successful and inspired the even more successful World of Warcraft. I'm not sure you can get farther from niche. If you want to say the game wasn't designed with broad appeal at its forefront that's one thing, suggesting it's intentionally not designed to have great success is totally false.

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Ragnar119 wrote:

Ok, i see you dont understand what I am saying.

Why would you wait 3 sec? This thread and my suggestion is to make more useful to use more dmg skills, you think to much in PoE way of combat, trying to spam a skill that is not for spamming xD. You would have one spam skill to do dmg (like cleave or something), but use your second skill for doing huge dmg at cost of cool down (like sweep). It means you will cycle around different dmg skills. So yee, there is nothing unnatural or illogical about it. I mean it's something it's already done in other arpg, including d2.

Single skill? No, but for a support gem yes. Every item you would link to that gem and you use it on monsters would buff their armor for the amount of % increase in dmg so the skill are not unbalanced and OP. And it would be a solution.

There are more threads like that, but i really dont want to search for them, they pop up here and there, so there are people that see the problem, unlike what you said.

This sounds terrible to me. I would hate so much to cycle skills.

the combat itself isnt the mainfokus in an Action RPG , you should play something like wow if you want that kind of fights

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Why would you wait 3 sec? This thread and my suggestion is to make more useful to use more dmg skills, you think to much in PoE way of combat, trying to spam a skill that is not for spamming xD. You would have one spam skill to do dmg (like cleave or something), but use your second skill for doing huge dmg at cost of cool down (like sweep). It means you will cycle around different dmg skills. So yee, there is nothing unnatural or illogical about it. I mean it's something it's already done in other arpg, including d2.

ok, then you mean cooldowns, not loading times, we are not speaking of the same thing.
Well ... why not, this can't be bad anyway ( but I think many people just won't find a suitable place for it, 2 5L are often taken by the main skill and a single target skil/totem/curse or else ).

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Single skill? No, but for a support gem yes. Every item you would link to that gem and you use it on monsters would buff their armor for the amount of % increase in dmg so the skill are not unbalanced and OP. And it would be a solution.

no, trust me it isn't, adding an exception like this is never good in a computer program, and is never a real solution. This juste doesn't fit to how armor is calculated. But there could be a balance. Like not 300% dmg, but 150% for a 3 seconds cooldown for example.

But even though ... it would not bring much, I mean, most end game builds one shot white mobs already, and a lot of them one shot blue ones too so ....

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This is silly. GGG made a game they would want to play. They did not set out with pretensions or elitist aspirations. It just so happened that the game found success among a niche of players who also enjoyed Diablo 2

no
GGG is a team of hardcore gamer, and they have done it the way the would like to play it from what they apparently said.
A niche game doesn't mean that it won't have success, just that it is not meant to be played by any audience and therefore will most likely have less player than successful titans such as WoW/LoL atm.

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Schnupfndrache7 wrote:

the combat itself isnt the mainfokus in an Action RPG , you should play something like wow if you want that kind of fights

To be fair I think that's because making combat engaging without severe rails on character customization is very difficult. Diablo 3 has pretty good combat but zero character customization. While I think it is difficult, I think it's a worthwhile pursuit for GGG to try and improve combat.

I enjoy thinking up a build but it's not engaging past that. Finding items can be fun, but even that loses its luster after things become an MMO style grind. Make an ARPG with the depth of POE and the combat of DOTA and you've got a serious winner on your hands.

Unfortunately, PoE is not group-oriented ( group design SUCKS here ) enough to allow a moba-fighting style unfortunately, it is too far away from it to be possible =(.

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Veta321 wrote:

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Schnupfndrache7 wrote:

the combat itself isnt the mainfokus in an Action RPG , you should play something like wow if you want that kind of fights

To be fair I think that's because making combat engaging without severe rails on character customization is very difficult. Diablo 3 has pretty good combat but zero character customization. While I think it is difficult, I think it's a worthwhile pursuit for GGG to try and improve combat.

I enjoy thinking up a build but it's not engaging past that. Finding items can be fun, but even that loses its luster after things become an MMO style grind. Make an ARPG with the depth of POE and the combat of DOTA and you've got a serious winner on your hands.

I've always wanted a diablo and cladun x2 style hybrid with online co-op through the cladun endless random dungeons :)


But ya, most games tend to limit character development because its LOT easier to balance when there are far fewer interacting parts to look at and still hope for it to be engaging... but that is a limit of the designers not understanding either their own system nor how to properly balance one and less a limit on aRPGs to be balanced/engaging.

Combat depth got a little better with 1.0 but its still an area that needs a lot of work. I think these are the areas for future improvement:
-Improve Skill differentiation. Hard to do this when so much of a skill's power comes from support gems which are available to all skills. Method of attack is to provide a greater range of a values for support gems, weak but efficient ones that are versatile vs. strong ones that have narrower function.
-More complex resource management. Currently we just have one resource: mana (with blood magic, then life). And skills only interact with it in one way- to spend mana. Some basic examples are to add additional resources, like time (cooldowns), or to have bi-directional interactions between skills and resources (generator skills).
-Reduce reliance on gear checking and one shots. GGG is their own worst enemy here. They keep buffing players in response to the content being too hard, only to undo the progress by setting the bar even higher with the next content push. For some reason, GGG would rather ruin all the work they did balancing pre-existing zones than admit that new stuff is over the line instead. Keeping the content's difficulty reasonably consistent would not only be simpler, it would be less destructive to the overall health of the game. There's no room for tactical play when 80% of the content is a brain-dead grindfest (due to subsequent player buffs since its initial launch), 10% is reasonably balanced (one patch back), and the latest 10% is gear check (latest content). 90% of the player base has no access to combat where tactics are relevant and thus cannot provide feedback to expand that reach. GGG's philosophy is self-destructive; the fix is not a gameplay change, it is a people change.

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Moosifer wrote:

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Ragnar119 wrote:

Ok, i see you dont understand what I am saying.

Why would you wait 3 sec? This thread and my suggestion is to make more useful to use more dmg skills, you think to much in PoE way of combat, trying to spam a skill that is not for spamming xD. You would have one spam skill to do dmg (like cleave or something), but use your second skill for doing huge dmg at cost of cool down (like sweep). It means you will cycle around different dmg skills. So yee, there is nothing unnatural or illogical about it. I mean it's something it's already done in other arpg, including d2.

Single skill? No, but for a support gem yes. Every item you would link to that gem and you use it on monsters would buff their armor for the amount of % increase in dmg so the skill are not unbalanced and OP. And it would be a solution.

There are more threads like that, but i really dont want to search for them, they pop up here and there, so there are people that see the problem, unlike what you said.

This sounds terrible to me. I would hate so much to cycle skills.

So I had a think about this. I like the premise and where Ragnar is trying to go with it but instead of an arbitrary cooldown why not use mana and attack speed to scale it. Say it's a support gem that increases damage by 1500% but requires you to charge the attack for 10x your attack speed - meaning your mana is drained and you can't move without cancelling while the attack charges up. I'm painting in broad strokes so don't get too caught up with the numbers. Alternatively some specifically designed skills could work that way.