Stop trying to sweep it under the rug.

"

crabshack wrote:

[...]

The mods reiterate that threads were locked because of derailment, except they ignore the occurrence when the original thread was preemptively locked at the request of the OP, who clearly at that point was about to be dumped on repeatedly by those who felt wronged and/or deceived.


Why was that thread prematurely locked? There was no derailment to that point. The OP engaged in an action that had consequences and was about to feel the wrath. Seems perfectly on point.

[...]

TL;DR as this post got rather annoyingly long and bad formated:
Scamming happens all the time. There were sure problems with discussed OPs reactions.
This case got an outrage because Support handled it in an awful way.


This points just ahead: I could care less about scammers, they are in every game. Just report them if the policy advocates it, else ignore them and warn new players. I agree with GGGs policy and this post rather critiques the way support handled this case rather than the scammer.

That said I agree this much with what you said but not on the preferential treatment.
Support would have basically acted the same way if any other person requested it.
They have a huge amount of credibility to loose and no 1000$ are worth this.
Especially as they are relying on a supportive, friendly community atmosphere.

And here we have the issue: supportive, friendly community atmosphere. This community atmosphere is not reflected in the amount of threads displayed with titles like "Cheater XXX sucks!", "XXXX scamming newbies". I would say GGGs rather harsh policy is to defend a state of community communications and display which should not spiral into a offensive, harsh environment or look like it in the first place.


What makes this case so special but let other scamming scenarios drown so fast?
Discussed OP is a dedicated supporter. But that is the most observable perk.
Instead of staying out of the forum for a while like many scammers tend to do
or using forum accounts, he responded to accusations in a further antagonistic way.

Support reacted:
Probably after the first person reporting an issue in a lightning fast manner. Quality support as always, no pun intended. But it looks like Bex did not get the full picture at that point, else she would have added some further comments.


People were not able to vent their frustration in a reasonable amount of time. It is like a generous kid gave a hungry-looking kid in Kindergarten his lunchbox but the hungry-looking kid proceeds to throw the lunchbox in the trash because he didn't like the spicing. Then when generous kid is about to beat the shit out of hungry-looking kid, latter one calls the kindergartner.

The consequence: People felt the need to open new threads in order to vent their frustration. They needed clear titles to aim for response of discussed OP directly rather than responding in his own thread where they were sure that he would read the critique.

The problem is that Support did a great job again without caring for effects which could result out of a premature thread-lock. My suggestion how everything could have been happening instead? OP was known for past antagonistic threads. Support could have probated him for his own safety, explain the situation to him and in the same time look like they probated him because of his initial actions. Then they could have let the thread swim a bit on the surface and lock it after a day once people were able to vent their thoughts. Moderation applies later on, censor bad language and extreme hateful remarks and the thread probably would have drown itself in the sink which is General Discussion.


@Support: If you read this post and have issues with the picture, please say so and remove it. Don't lock this thread for "Derailment". It will drown anyway.

"

INeXLowLeVel wrote:

...

do youself a favour and read the paragraph after "F)" in the following thread:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/514309

"

Josephoenix wrote:

Spoiler

"

INeXLowLeVel wrote:

"

crabshack wrote:

I didn't donate anything, nor do I particularly care about the ethics of the action, but the situation still caught my eye--because of GGG response which seemingly was off balance, and of course my personal midterm procrastination.


The mods reiterate that threads were locked because of derailment, except they ignore the occurrence when the original thread was preemptively locked at the request of the OP, who clearly at that point was about to be dumped on repeatedly by those who felt wronged and/or deceived.


Why was that thread prematurely locked? There was no derailment to that point. The OP engaged in an action that had consequences and was about to feel the wrath. Seems perfectly on point.


Within the next few hours multiple threads started popping up and were quickly, quickly locked. I read them, they were not all that name and shame. They were preemptively locked...it's that simple. Could they have become out of control and off color? Sure. I don't believe they were to that point. For whatever reason(s), the mod was hyper sensitive to protecting this person, or so it seemed.


I really didn't understand why. Was it because of the generous donation this person made? Possibly, but then again lots of people have given money.


Then you travel to Off-Topic and see the same person write a lighthearted and good-natured, but otherwise corny, poem to the mod...that was stickied and well-received by many. The circumstances are now a bit more clear given the timing/parties involved.


The whole situation screams of preferential treatment. That's unfortunate.


I understand it, GGG gets repeatedly crapped on for decisions made regarding the game and it must feel nice to receive legitimate support from time to time. But still, please don't direct any and all concerns or questions to a TOS thread that is highly opinionated (e.g. 'antagonize') and open to interpretation in light of what appears to be playing the favorite. It's unbecoming of a game most of us are interested in succeeding on a global scale.

Best part is when they put someone in probation just because he summed all the threads in one place : http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/543848
..
In Off-Topic!
Ofc locked.


Lock a thread in off topic..
Don't send you an email to tell you how much time you are in probation..
Don't leave any comment in the thread.. ( just lock it)


Would the result be different if i was an :

?

do youself a favour and read the paragraph after "F)" in the following thread:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/514309

Do yourself a favor and read :

"

MrSmiley21 wrote:

"

Josephoenix wrote:

he understands just fine...

He doesn't need you putting words in his mouth.

And why are you trying to act like you're someone big here? You're nobody. Stop trying to act like a "somebody".

A lot of your posts scream of "I'm a staff member wannabe".

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/543939

you know what Inex... I'm not a staff member, I'm not a mod... I'm a forum user who doesn't feel that the kind of garbage many ppl (yourself included) have been contributing to the community as of late, is "good" for GGG/PoE/Other forum users.

Perhaps because you weren't around in CB, you can't understand what the community used to be like. However that aside, it doesn't mean that there can't be decorum on the forums.

As a member of this community, I will do what I think might help to keep it constructive. Because even though there are a vocal minority of _______________s on the forum lately (not the biggest_____, but you're certainly the most "vocal"), the 90% of users that are here to benefit (in one way or another) POSITIVELY of what the PoE forums can bring... I will help in doing that.

Don't like it... too fucking bad.

"

Josephoenix wrote:

you know what Inex... I'm not a staff member, I'm not a mod... I'm a forum user who doesn't feel that the kind of garbage many ppl (yourself included) have been contributing to the community as of late, is "good" for GGG/PoE/Other forum users.

Perhaps because you weren't around in CB, you can't understand what the community used to be like. However that aside, it doesn't mean that there can't be decorum on the forums.

As a member of this community, I will do what I think might help to keep it constructive. Because even though there are a vocal minority of _______________s on the forum lately (not the biggest_____, but you're certainly the most "vocal"), the 90% of users that are here to benefit (in one way or another) POSITIVELY of what the PoE forums can bring... I will help in doing that.

Don't like it... too fucking bad.

While you are entitled to your own opinion, I don't see how you can't extend the same to someone else who sees it differently.

The OP in the original thread requested a lock ON HIS OWN POST because he knew what he did. Then subsequent thread locks and deletions made it look entirely worse. Many saw this as special treatment for an eternal supporter, which may or may not have been the case.

I can tell you that I haven't seen anything like that, that I can remember, on these forums.

It clearly looked like GGG was trying to lock & delete the entire event as if it never happened. I don't really agree with that, and it makes them look bad.

How can the OP name & shame himself, and then get mad at the community? Beats me.

How can you name and shame a person, when you repeat the actions that person took?

Would this not mean he name and shamed himself before u repeat his actions?

there are 2 issues at hand:

1. The event
2. The reaction

I have zero say/control etc... on #1. I don't even know all the facts, only what I have read and *usually* (especially on the internet) that's never the whole story. So as for #1, if true, then it's shameful, if not = nothing to see here.

I have no ability or desire to address #1, because it's been in GGG's hands for a while now.

As for #2. This is where we have a problem. The community has a problem. And in essence GGG has a problem. There are many solutions to the problem.. but users going against forum guidelines and the ToU is not one of them.

So what should the community do... difficult to tell, considering there are many different views and types of ppl who come here. My personal view (which amyn won't agree with) is to just stfu about #1 and let GGG sort it out.

The Forum users are not the judge, jury and executioners of GGG/PoE/Other forum users...GGG is, and if you ask many of the old community moderators... it's not something we should aspire to. It's a tough job.

I'm not out to "get" anyone or to seem "holier than thou" (though understandably to some, it may seem that way). I've made mistakes in my forum posts before, I've been doing it since July 2012. But at the end of the day, it's GGG's forum/game and the best thing we can do for THEM, and by proxy "US". Is to let them do their job.

We don't know "what" they're doing about #1, but it's not up to "US".

"

Josephoenix wrote:

there are 2 issues at hand:

1. The event
2. The reaction

I have zero say/control etc... on #1. I don't even know all the facts, only what I have read and *usually* (especially on the internet) that's never the whole story. So as for #1, if true, then it's shameful, if not = nothing to see here.

I have no ability or desire to address #1, because it's been in GGG's hands for a while now.

As for #2. This is where we have a problem. The community has a problem. And in essence GGG has a problem. There are many solutions to the problem.. but users going against forum guidelines and the ToU is not one of them.

So what should the community do... difficult to tell, considering there are many different views and types of ppl who come here. My personal view (which amyn won't agree with) is to just stfu about #1 and let GGG sort it out.

The Forum users are not the judge, jury and executioners of GGG/PoE/Other forum users...GGG is, and if you ask many of the old community moderators... it's not something we should aspire to. It's a tough job.

I'm not out to "get" anyone or to seem "holier than thou" (though understandably to some, it may seem that way). I've made mistakes in my forum posts before, I've been doing it since July 2012. But at the end of the day, it's GGG's forum/game and the best thing we can do for THEM, and by proxy "US". Is to let them do their job.

We don't know "what" they're doing about #1, but it's not up to "US".

The OP PM'd GGG and asked for his own thread/post to be locked because he knew what he did. This is not rumor or conjecture. View the post for yourself.

I don't believe anyone should be able to subvert the community just by a PM to a moderator, to assist in a covering up something they did. He undermines the whole purpose of posting on the forums.

In case you don't believe me, view the last post in the thread below.

The problem is that the forums guide lines have a loophole.

If a person shames himself publicly, and you repeat his actions, it might look like you are naming and shaming that person. But this is not the case, people are simply repeating the actions this person undertook.

The forum guide lines did not foresee a situation like this, and thus a quick fix was opted for.

In your example people are doing 2 by repeating 1. And thus cannot be blamed for name and shaming. since they are talking about an event that took place. They did not lie, they did not harm, they did not shame.

It can be disputed if repeating the event is harmfull/shamefull, but then again, they did not create the event and are just repeating it. The person who initiated the event is the cause of the harm and shame.

And while i disagree with the route to tackle this problem, i still think a stickied post concerning actions like this should be made by GGG themselves with some "random" names in it just to work as an example that new players can learn about.

In this particular case the harm was very low, but i can think of cases with new players at release where the harm will be far greater if they are not informed.

Hi

Ban lotteries, we learn but we only learn if we remember and I remember that post.

Looking at it then and even now think ''damn those people got scammed'' ARPG Fan's should feel sad that this occurred due to a mixture of greed and desperation at how the rng works in some games but even more so at how GGG knows now,if not then, of this loophole and how that OP used it to their advantage to ensure future abusements of this sort do not happen.

cheers