Another gunman shooting! We need stricter gun control laws!!!

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

Spoiler

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Septile wrote:

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

source articles I WIN ARGUMENT GUYS

It's obvious the concept of correlation does not equal causation is completely lost to you on this, it's clear to me that you're arguing from a purely emotional point of view(I'm scared of guns therefore they should be banned), rather than any using any sort of logic, so I don't see why I would bother arguing.

Fine by me. Don't recall once talking to you in the thread anyway. My involvement here was purely to interact with RayCheetah, whom I consider a friend and who has shown in the past that he deserves every consideration and moment of my time. I expanded that to Velocireptile because he, too, has been Not-A-Cockroach in the past.

I saw your posts and just rolled my eyes. I'm sorry you saw fit to reply to any of mine.

Sorry if my attempt to broaden the scope of knowledge struck you as offensive.

And like I said, there's no winning. Y'all. Are. Fucked.

Enjoy

.

Your sources didn't really say that "guns" were the problem, but rather the fact that any asshole can get one because we have basically zero checks in place when it comes to gun shows or transfers between private sellers. Like I said before, it should never be easier to get a gun than to get a prescription.

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

Fine by me. Don't recall once talking to you in the thread anyway. My involvement here was purely to interact with RayCheetah, whom I consider a friend and who has shown in the past that he deserves every consideration and moment of my time. I expanded that to Velocireptile because he, too, has been Not-A-Cockroach in the past.

I saw your posts and just rolled my eyes. I'm sorry you saw fit to reply to any of mine.

Sorry if my attempt to broaden the scope of knowledge struck you as offensive.

And like I said, there's no winning. Y'all. Are. Fucked.

Enjoy.

It's a public forum, anything posted is open for anybody to address it.

If stating the obvious = broadening the scope of knowledge to you then you might want to consider setting the bar a little higher.

But yeah I guess you're right, looks like me and the hundreds of millions of Americans who have never been shot, or even shot at, are totally fucked.

I will recommend that if you really wish to argue this topic, actually taking a look into criminal justice in the US might help a bit, if it's not too far out of your way. Might give your arguments more substance.

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derbefrier wrote:

same old song and dance every time something like this happens. The truth is the majority of The American people don't want stronger gun control. This is why it fails everytime. Its a part of the fundamental philosophy that an armed citizen is able to protect itself from a tyrannical government unlike an unarmed one if it should ever come to that. Thats the basic philosophy behind the second amendment and why its important it never gets over turned(which it wont) A free man must be able to protect his freedom after all.


I am reminded of a quote " An armed man is a citizen, while an unarmed man is a subject."

figured this would be ignored it usually is when I post this stuff in gun control arguments. I just want you anti enthusiasts to stop a second and look at this debate from a different point of view so at the very least you can understand our perspective even if you still ultimately disagree with it. America isn't just a bunch of rednecks obsessed with guns. This governing philosophy runs much deeper than some superficial obsession but as you can see this philosophy is easy to demagogue and its much easier to keep the conversation superficial and argue about meaningless statistics that really mean nothing(as its easy to cherry pick what you need to back up what ever side you may be on). Americans are raised with this belief it is ingrained in our culture from birth much like other places outside of the US its citizens indoctrinated since birth to believe guns are the root of all evil.

What once was a way to strip power its citizens and keep them submissive is now seen as morally superior point of view by many of you but our Framers of the Constitution knew the only way for a citizen to protect itself from a oppressive government( if the rule of law failed) was having the ability to arm oneself. Many of you may try to argue that is an outdated way of thinking but if you keep up with American politics many argue we are already in a form of "soft Tyranny" and our president every day is making a mockery of our constitution. ITs not so far fetched when you open your eyes that one day this right will save our country if it keeps heading in the direction its going and the political establishment keeps seizing power from the individual. This is why gun control almost always falls on its ass, and most likely why it will continue to do so.

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

Not ignored, just hard to respect when you open with 'anti gun nuts'.

edit: eh screw if you want to be educated you can read it if you prefer to stay in the dark just ignore me. I even changed nut to enthusiast if it makes you feel better but i have a suspicion you didnt wanna listen anyway.

my totally un-educated and subjective opinion?

America is full of nutjobs. And having guns readily at their disposal doesn't really help against gun violence.

Edit: Just curious. I stumbled over this article http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/03/news/companies/guns-children/index.html.
Does kids owning Rifles tie in with the whole self-defense thing?

edit: there's no point in me saying anything further. If ppl can't understand that an over 200 year old amendment...needs to be amended (get with times... maybe), then there's no way to have a conversation about it.

How on earth did you guys get rid of slavery? Or allow women to vote? And what's up with the whole gay marriage thing?

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Velocireptile wrote:

That's one of the problems with these thing. The Media Glorifies the shooter and makes sure they get their 15 minutes of fame. Giving the next person who wants to do this, even more reason.

This is the interesting side of it. I believe the way news agencies report on unfortunate events like these, and only show the sadness or outrage it has caused along with the facts, has a negative impact on how people view the situation. It ends up causing many people to manifest hate towards the perpetrator, and then on the other side of that you have some who mock how people are able to hate so easily. I personally find it absurd to have contempt for another's actions, because of how equal we really are as people.

I would like to see the effects there would be if it became normal in society to show pity for the situations offenders got themselves into, where they felt it was appropriate to make such rash decisions.

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IntrovertGal wrote:

12 killed in Washington navy yard... what next? Obama isn't doing anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVH6kJNkA7o

There is nothing Obama or anyone else can do to prevent this. Insane people who do not value their own lives cannot be deterred from killing others - because they themselves do not care if they die, which is pretty much the harshest deterrent one can offer. This is why the 'war on terror' will be perpetual.

Americans will never give up their guns because of what a document written over 100 years ago says, pertaining to a weapon that at the time wasn't nearly as mass-lethal as it is now, and which was directed at a well trained militia (because we had just recently freed ourselves from the thumb of the Brits with the help of an ocean and a guy named Napoleon - and they weren't about to give up their guns then).

Funny thing is, our founding fathers recognized the necessity of rewriting our constitution: "Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the arc of the covenant, too sacred to be touched; who ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment. Let us follow no such examples, nor weakly believe that one generation is not as capable as another of taking care of itself, and of ordering its own affairs. Each generation is as independent as the one preceding, as that was of all which had gone before."

-Thomas Jefferson

I often laugh and revel in the humor of a losing argument whose only card left to play is the "get with the times, that's not relevant for today." There is always a connection to losing the debate and trying to make others feel bad for being logical.