Any one who feels like D3 will NEVER be good due to the lack of making builds?

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Antilurker77 wrote:

Yeah, Blizzard should nerf all the legendaries because of one ability from one class. Brilliant idea.

Energy Twister by far had the highest number of procs in the game. The pre-1.0.4 version could get a near 100% uptime for every legendary proc in the game which would have been broken. If they were nerfing it because of CM, they would have removed the ability to keep up perma-freeze, but they didn't. It's still not hard to do after the patch.

Uhhh, RLTW.... nuff said. Maybe I should elaborate for you since you seem to have limited knowledge of the game and its mechanics. RLTW = Sprint - Run like the wind = more procs than WW = not nerfed in 1.0.4 = your argument/blizz argument trashed.


WW = wicked wind btw

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thepmrc wrote:

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Antilurker77 wrote:

Yeah, Blizzard should nerf all the legendaries because of one ability from one class. Brilliant idea.

Energy Twister by far had the highest number of procs in the game. The pre-1.0.4 version could get a near 100% uptime for every legendary proc in the game which would have been broken. If they were nerfing it because of CM, they would have removed the ability to keep up perma-freeze, but they didn't. It's still not hard to do after the patch.

Uhhh, RLTW.... nuff said. Maybe I should elaborate for you since you seem to have limited knowledge of the game and its mechanics. RLTW = Sprint - Run like the wind = more procs than WW = not nerfed in 1.0.4 = your argument/blizz argument trashed.


WW = wicked wind btw

Sprint tornadoes had nowhere near the proc uptime of pre-1.0.4 ET. The nerf actually brought the two pretty close together.

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Antilurker77 wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

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Antilurker77 wrote:

Yeah, Blizzard should nerf all the legendaries because of one ability from one class. Brilliant idea.

Energy Twister by far had the highest number of procs in the game. The pre-1.0.4 version could get a near 100% uptime for every legendary proc in the game which would have been broken. If they were nerfing it because of CM, they would have removed the ability to keep up perma-freeze, but they didn't. It's still not hard to do after the patch.

Uhhh, RLTW.... nuff said. Maybe I should elaborate for you since you seem to have limited knowledge of the game and its mechanics. RLTW = Sprint - Run like the wind = more procs than WW = not nerfed in 1.0.4 = your argument/blizz argument trashed.


WW = wicked wind btw

Sprint tornadoes had nowhere near the proc uptime of pre-1.0.4 ET. The nerf actually brought the two pretty close together.

considering they had the same proc coefficient I will say no. Considering the Barbarian can get 15% CC from passives I would say certainly not.

None of this arguing changes the fact that every class wants the same gear... main stat / vit / cc / cd /ias, and every class has certain abilities that are used by 80-90% of the players of that class (as illustrated by Diablo Progress). So regardless of whether or not you truly believe that Blizzard nerfed Wizard proc rates due to the crappy legendary procs or due to the massively OP passive that is CM there is still no build variety in D3

There are 5 builds in Diablo 3 - Wizard, Barbarian, Witch Doctor, Monk and Demon Hunter.

Those 5 builds have several skills to choose from, which they can change every time they need to overcome a challenge.

Let's say we have a build in DOTA/LoL/PoE/D2/Baldurs Gate/Fallout etc. A build in those games will mean, that you have to think in a special way to overcome the challenges. In the MOBA-games, DOTA/HON/LOL you will have to choose builds to defeat tankers/Damage Dealers/team fights, that makes you think and play to make the build viable.

In Fallout your game experience will be formed by how your build is - do you like talking your way through? Charisma might be a great idea, and that will be how you overcome things.

Diablo 2 and PoE is the same, a build will be created through the game, and dictate how I play the game.

In Diablo 3 the only build choice you have is when you choose a character. Let's say if I in D2 made a Frozen Orb build to my Sorceress, and I had occulus orb + lidless wall as weapon/shield, and on W I had Ali baba and a 4 socked IST rune shield. While fighting Baal I used Occulus and Lidless, and just before killing him I'd press W to get more MF. Would that be a change of build? - No, it would be a part of my build, an viable option that helped perfecting my build.

In Diablo 3, would I call it a new build if I changed from hydra to blizzard? Nope, it would again be a part of the "wizard-build", just an option to fight monsters more or less effectively in the situation.

Builds should create your experience through game, not a thing you just changes every time you need to. It would be like calling it different builds every time you got a boost or new weapon in Quake 3 Arena.

So, 5 builds, wizard, witch doctor, barbarian, monk and demon hunter, as that is the only decision in the game that defines your experience through game.

Of course you don't have to agree with me, and I am ready to make a compromise and say, there's no real builds in D3.

While we are on the subject of Diablo, I think there is a ladder reset coming for Diablo 2 soon. Last one was in May, so expect new one around mid-November.

I think I'm going to have some hardcore D2 fun making proper builds as soon as the new season starts, are there others who might join the fun?

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krifFinn wrote:

While we are on the subject of Diablo, I think there is a ladder reset coming for Diablo 2 soon. Last one was in May, so expect new one around mid-November.

I think I'm going to have some hardcore D2 fun making proper builds as soon as the new season starts, are there others who might join the fun?

Doesn't sound like a bad idea actually.

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ongZ wrote:

Builds should create your experience through game, not a thing you just changes every time you need to. It would be like calling it different builds every time you got a boost or new weapon in Quake 3 Arena.

I agree with your whole post, but those lines really stand out to me, since that is almost word for word how I explained it to a friend:

"Diablo 3 is much like Team Fortress 2. You have different classes, and within a class, you can select a loadout of weapons. That is exactly how Diablo III operates: You have a class, and within that class, you can select a loadout of skills. You can even completely switch your loadout every time you feel like it."


In a way, Diablo 3 is much more of an isometric shooter than it is an ARPG.

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Avireyn wrote:

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ongZ wrote:

Builds should create your experience through game, not a thing you just changes every time you need to. It would be like calling it different builds every time you got a boost or new weapon in Quake 3 Arena.

I agree with your whole post, but those lines really stand out to me, since that is almost word for word how I explained it to a friend:

"Diablo 3 is much like Team Fortress 2. You have different classes, and within a class, you can select a loadout of weapons. That is exactly how Diablo III operates: You have a class, and within that class, you can select a loadout of skills. You can even completely switch your loadout every time you feel like it."


In a way, Diablo 3 is much more of an isometric shooter than it is an ARPG.

Exactly! Of course you could take the worst weapon and try to be good at it, but it would still be the worst. If I make a build in PoE, Frost nova, I will do my best to make it as good as possible. If you play D3, you will not go for the crappy skills, you'll go for the best, as that is the most effective for your build, which is the character.

The only real decision in D3 is in the character selection screen.

I like how we hit the same analogy ;-) Great minds think alike! :D

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considering they had the same proc coefficient I will say no.

Energy Twister ticks twice as fast.

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ongZ wrote:

Exactly! Of course you could take the worst weapon and try to be good at it, but it would still be the worst. If I make a build in PoE, Frost nova, I will do my best to make it as good as possible. If you play D3, you will not go for the crappy skills, you'll go for the best, as that is the most effective for your build, which is the character.

The only real decision in D3 is in the character selection screen.

I like how we hit the same analogy ;-) Great minds think alike! :D

You aren't making sense. You would never use Frost Nova because it's a terrible skill. Even if you built your character around Frost Nova, it would still be just as terrible. You spent 30 hours building a terrible character. There is no reason to ever pick a crappy skill in PoE.

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FireSkull wrote:

Another thing that says alot about it, is that PoE has taken the system from D2 and changed it a bit, skills are found as drops, just like books in D1 except u need to put them in a socket and u can add support gems. Stat points are based on Passive skill tree and items. Boosts to skills that you want to make builds with are also in passive tree. D3 on the other hand, has dumbed their system down into being more simple and shittier than Diablo fucking ONE. YES ONEEEE!!! FROM 1996!!!!

PoE even makes builds based around unique items. The well known facebreaker build and the low life Witch build from the Redbeak sword.

A amulet that boosts minions for minion builds.
Brilliant ideas, keep em coming, they are epic!

Alot more that i dont know about aswell for sure.

D3 has also made unique items suck horribly because its all based on DPS. I remmember Wizardspike from Diablo 2, very well made item that gave you extremely fast cast rate, shit high ressits, BUT, no + to skills at all. This item was well made, because the character had to adjust his build around this item just a bit. In D3 its just.... eguip and, dont think about it at all. its NOOB.

If i was a Diamond Supporter, i would design a item similar to Wizardspike. :D (I am aware that there are actucally 2 items both called Wizardspike, both a pair of gloves and a knife. using both at once would give 100 increased cast speed lol.) They both have exact same stats, except that the gloves give armor and the knife gives melee damage. (Melee damage useless for caster, so it doenst matter.) Some patching was done because these gloves were removed, aswell as boots that were also called Wizardspike and had the exact same stats. (150 fcr from 3 items holy shit wtf.)

Where is the +9001 reputation button for this post. I cant find it ANYWHERE D:<