Why does reave not work properly with Dual wield?

If only the weapon restrictions weren't involved again.....

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Nightmare90 wrote:

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TiltedAxis wrote:

AlLLLLL the stats of a shield, the higher block, the life, the defense....


im sure that trades off fairly to about 10% attack speed right GGG?

The last time I remember a one-handed weapon
also comes with many offensive stats and also possibly some resistance.

.. it comes with offensive stats FOR THAT WEAPON


which do NOTHING if you can't properly utilize it by attacking with that weapon at the same time as the other... if you just alternate theirs absolutely no point to using a second one...

unless they had stronger skils...

which they do... Cleave and dual strike... and thats it.


oh yes, 10% attack speed vs. 1500+ armour/evasion or 500+ ES. And 80-100 hp. And maybe 35 to all resists... thats def worth

It's 10% MORE attack speed. It's a HUGE difference.

You know the problem with "dual wield is supposed to be an in-between"? Weapon local stats vs. shield global stats.

Now, if you're talking about interesting forced-mainhand builds, I would point out that a shield is superior in EVERY case except the one where the offhander has a unique effect.

All weapons can roll for defense is resists, and those have to compete with a whole host of other suffixes. 90% of the time, you're saying "I'll trade everything a potential shield gives - HP, resists, more ar/ev/es, Aegis/spellblock/etc - for a bit of ias and much less block."

Attack speed...oh right, you mean that thing I can get from pretty much everywhere with a bit of investment? 10% MORE is significant enough that I stack the hell out of ias on my build (last count it was way over +100% before gear/skills) but it's also not enough to convince me that a shield isn't better in every case EXCEPT dual splash. And I'm speaking as a dual wield cyclonist. Alternating weapons is a choice I make.

That reminds me, I need to go make my shadow test out some of those unique-offhand builds. That's where all the interesting dual wield comes from anyway.

In short: 10% more attack speed is significant, but not significant enough.

Kirelas, don't bother with that logic, mark will just come in here again and say the exact same thing, that somehow the massive advantage of a shield is a fair tradeoff for 10% attack speed since we as dual wielders have 1 attack that actually scales with dual wielding out of the dozens of attacks available.

Dual wield give 15% block and 10% more atk spd
1h+shield gives more defense

i dont see whats so hard to understand?


Edit: you can get more block while dual wielding via passive to increase defense, so whats the problem? if you want more defense, go get more defense.

No one here is going to convince this guy that he's wrong. It's impossible.

I don't want more defense... I want more than 1 skill in this game to actually properly work with dual wielding, I want this obvious disadvantageous tradeoff to have some benefit

I... mostly agree with Opie, as gentle and subtle as he makes his case.

Shields are awesome. Worth giving up a 6L for.

Being at the complete mercy of RNGesus for not one, but two comparable weapons is not awesome. And not worth giving eleven trillion block, the 6L, and armour/evasion/energy shield for. Jesus, some shields have +24% resist all as a free mod. 24. That's three good affixes's worth. Free.

I really like that Dual Strike and Cleave give some extra scaling, and act as signature dual wield skills. 10% more damage of half as much damage as a two handed weapon is poverty. I have included some math to demonstrate:

.5 * 1.1 = .55.

Anger, Wrath, and flat off weapon stats obviously make it a little more than half as much damage in practice, but let's get real here. A single handed weapon is still 90% as good as Dual Wielding when the skill in question is not Dual Strike or Cleave.

For me, "fixing" Cleave and Dual Strike would be as good as deleting Dual Wield from the game full stop.

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All weapons can roll for defense is resists, and those have to compete with a whole host of other suffixes.

And of course being crazy enough to equip such an item is going to more than wipe out the DPS gains from the 10% more attack speed. You'd have more damage and more defense with a shield.

Especially with how block is a stat with accelerating returns: the more than twice as high block base is more than just twice as good.

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In short: 10% more attack speed is significant, but not significant enough.

And it's not all about numbers, oh no. It's an emotional thing too. It's objectively more fun to wave both your arms around at the same time like a goomba rather than forcing them to take turns alternating.

Seriously....


^

Some people just love to e-hump dev's so much they can't just be honest.

The hard reality is, the incredibly minor "bonus's" you get from dual wielding are not even CLOSE to using a shielding


Its not about "more damage or more defense"


its about a tiny boost to damage vs. a huge boost to pretty much everything else


"Alternating weapons" between attacks is not scaling with dual wielding, that doesn't benefit us at all.

btw mark, probably not a great idea to a link a thread where no one can tell if you're trolling because of how bad your logic is.


Fix Dual wielding or remove it, stop denying that theirs a problem. Dual Strike is a great start, now start adding skills that properly scale with DW.



So now, as a dual wielder, now that reave is here... I guess I'm stuck still using dual strike with melee splash? surely reave won't do more damage, as dual strike actually scales with both my weapons, and reave won't...