pls add gold to buy items

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Slicer wrote:

In the real world, there are a whole lot of controls on, and concern with, inflation.

In a game where currency is effectively an unlimited renewable resource, not so much.

I disagree.

In the real world the currency is ultimately worthless, in PoE it isn't.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

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EviLSheepLord wrote:

"How much is a duck worth?".

Whatever someone will pay you for it, just like everything else in the world. If no one will pay your price, it's not worth that much.

You still haven't said what the value is, just commented how it's not my perceived value. Which I totally agree with you. So now I have to revalue it? Is it worth 2 chickens? What's a chicken worth?

Well skiv he's right in his argument, because he's not stating that some people won't trade 5 chickens for 1 egg he is just stating that the market would shape currency system not devs after all.
If ppl will be discontent on ingame currency system because it will be hard to comprehend, denominate value of items in (different) currency items - in short it will be hard to use they will develop some other easier to use for them system.
Whether it will be just some currency items instead of all or some kind of other game item (soj any1?) or real money it doesn't matter.

To develop stable and easy to grasp currency system based on so much different currencies will be a giant task.
I don't know if GGG is expecting this and is aware how much work it will be needed to develop just a stable framework of such currency system.
It will be huge effort to set this and it will be even harder to maintain given that game is intended to grow in content for years to come.

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EviLSheepLord wrote:

You still haven't said what the value is, just commented how it's not my perceived value. Which I totally agree with you. So now I have to revalue it? Is it worth 2 chickens? What's a chicken worth?

I did say what the value is. The problem is that you're expecting a unit answer, which is impossible to give unless it's coming from the person willing to pay you that amount of a unit. You can't force the PoE system to be like other systems by asking a question. If you keep at it like that, no one's ever going to buy your duck.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

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EviLSheepLord wrote:

You still haven't said what the value is, just commented how it's not my perceived value. Which I totally agree with you. So now I have to revalue it? Is it worth 2 chickens? What's a chicken worth?

I did say what the value is. The problem is that you're expecting a unit answer, which is impossible to give unless it's coming from the person willing to pay you that amount of a unit. You can't force the PoE system to be like other systems by asking a question. If you keep at it like that, no one's ever going to buy your duck.

I don't disagree with that statement. I won't sell my duck because I don't understand it's value. Market forces will determine the value. I can't think of any market that doesn't come down to some common quantifier. Why? Because it uncomplicates things.

I'm just stating observations and throwing in what I saw as a little perspective. Overly complicated barter systems eventually get broken down into some common denominator or they just don't work(back to my original point). I also said this could easily be scrolls, things will eventually get measured in scrolls or other lower valued currency items.

Reiterating my point, those that want gold just view 'scrolls' as gold. Those that don't, well, don't.

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EviLSheepLord wrote:

I won't sell my duck because I don't understand it's value. Market forces will determine the value. I can't think of any market that doesn't come down to some common quantifier.

Even here, there's the distinction between market value and personal value: if your personal valuation of an item exceeds its market value, you're probably not going to sell it (or, you're more likely to buy it if you can), and vice versa. There's the sense that you got a deal, or you got ripped off.

Market forces may inform your personal value for an item, but I'd like to point out that even with real-world currencies it's not uncommon to see local variations in prices - and that's even with mass-production and global competition evening things out. When was the last time you saw something "On Sale!", for example? Or, as a tourist, noticed how expensive everything seemed to be (especially for tourists, in some places)?

Trying to pin down set "values" for currency items (and regular items, for that matter) isn't quite as "realistic" as you might think.

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Skivverus wrote:

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EviLSheepLord wrote:

I won't sell my duck because I don't understand it's value. Market forces will determine the value. I can't think of any market that doesn't come down to some common quantifier.

Even here, there's the distinction between market value and personal value: if your personal valuation of an item exceeds its market value, you're probably not going to sell it (or, you're more likely to buy it if you can), and vice versa. There's the sense that you got a deal, or you got ripped off.

Market forces may inform your personal value for an item, but I'd like to point out that even with real-world currencies it's not uncommon to see local variations in prices - and that's even with mass-production and global competition evening things out. When was the last time you saw something "On Sale!", for example? Or, as a tourist, noticed how expensive everything seemed to be (especially for tourists, in some places)?

Trying to pin down set "values" for currency items (and regular items, for that matter) isn't quite as "realistic" as you might think.

All good points. I don't really disagree with any one of them, most of what you said touches on what I have been saying. Prices are different even locally, there's still a base value behind every price. I'm not arguing sales/prices by territory and whether one sale vs another is good value. What I am trying to point out is that you only know it's good value or bad value because you have something to measure against. Measuring whether 3 ducks is good value for 5 chickens, or maybe 2 geese and 1 chicken gets difficult. The more items you add, the harder it gets, which then some people may perceive the system to be overly-complicated or flawed or just not fun to deal with. Which brings us back to my original point, people in this scenario will find the base denomination to make life easier for themselves. The lower value currency items. Back to the very beginning once again, may as well be called 'gold' for all intents and purposes. Call it fairy dust, scrolls or gold. It ends up meaning the exact same thing.

So do we need gold? No. Will something become 'gold', probably.

"Gold is worthless in other games" is a TERRIBLE argument. There is a reason that every ARPG game, and every real world economy uses currency. That's because it makes complete sense.

This game needs a BALANCED currency system. Instead of having monsters drop thousands of gold, why not make them on occasion (not all the time) drop 1-3 pieces per difficulty level, then have items be sold based around that amount.

This will create a perfect balance where gold will never be worthless and people wont have millions of it. The clear solution is to scale down the excessive drop rate of D2. Play D2 with any mod that lowers the gold drop rate and you will see how it dramatically fixes all of the monetary issues.

You're completely missing the point: Why do we need gold? If you create a unit of currency, it has to have a use. Every use is covered by our consumable currency, which also has the inherent nature of slowing inflation by being constantly consumed.

I really don't understand why people want to be told that x=y instead of being allowed to choose for themselves.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

You're completely missing the point: Why do we need gold? If you create a unit of currency, it has to have a use. Every use is covered by our consumable currency, which also has the inherent nature of slowing inflation by being constantly consumed.

I really don't understand why people want to be told that x=y instead of being allowed to choose for themselves.

This. Also, gold won't be in PoE... so, although some of this discussion is interesting, it is ultimately pointless. Might as well request that PoE add in some robots and ray guns.