Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

Then tell me again why you don't like playing in the SA/FFA parties again now that the slower players can opt out? The only reasoning I have heard is that the competition is too high, which just proves me right.

I can't speak for SA, but for me it's not so much the current SA/FFA parties that piss me off, it's PA parties enjoying a 3.5 loot-per-map advantage vs solo and not having to put in any additional effort to do so. At least a scrub in SA doesn't get to enjoy the group bonus.

So it's not about SA difficulty being too high, it's about PA difficulty being too low. PA is a QQ concession that I don't agree with.

With that whole narrative mechanic thing, it's not that I can't enjoy it. I do, it's other people who choose not to. I don't think it's right to have a carebear, everyone automatically cooperates option. That's dumbing down the game's soul for the sake of appeasement, which is the storyline equivalent of QQ concession.

Does that make me a hater? Probably, but irrelevant. I don't care two shits about playing Standard myself, yet I'm strongly against removing or reducing the death penalty there. Does that make me a crazy hater? No. It makes me a sane hater, because the game should not have a goddamn easy button.

How do you get a 3.5 loot-per-map advantage vs solo? and what is that actually supposed to mean? Are you trying to say that a single person in a 6 player party gets 3.5 times the loot of a SOLO player clearing the same map? If so I think you are mistaken. If there is 50% more loot per player then you would actually be getting less loot per person.

2players = 150% quantity = 75% per person
3players = 200% quantity = 67% per person
4players = 250% quantity = 62.5% per person
etc...

Or are you referring to the fact that you get more loot per MAP that you open when doing maps with a party? This being due to the other people in the party also opening maps? If that is what you are referring to then it is a completely different debate regarding map drop balance between solo and party play.

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iamstryker wrote:

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exit_zero wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

I'm not going to necessarily agree with what he is arguing but I really don't see why you don't want to answer the question. You must have a reason so why not just answer it?

That would be due to the fact that I am right. lol

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I can't speak for SA, but for me it's not so much the current SA/FFA parties that piss me off, it's PA parties enjoying a 3.5 loot-per-map advantage vs solo

I thought it was common knowledge that there is less loot overall per player in a party than if each player was playing solo. The biggest actual bonus to playing in a party is just that it clears faster, Most everyone in here agrees that partying is too easy so how about making the monsters harder? Why is it a requirement that to achieve difficulty players have to compete against each other?

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thepmrc wrote:

2players = 150% quantity = 75% per person
3players = 200% quantity = 67% per person
4players = 250% quantity = 62.5% per person
etc...

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iamstryker wrote:

I thought it was common knowledge that there is less loot overall per player in a party than if each player was playing solo. The biggest actual bonus to playing in a party is just that it clears faster, Most everyone in here agrees that partying is too easy so how about making the monsters harder? Why is it a requirement that to achieve difficulty players have to compete against each other?

Loot per person per map
2players = 75% per person / 0.5 map cost per run = 150%
3players = 67% per person / 0.33 map cost per run = 200%
4players = 62.5% per person / 0.25 map cost per run = 250%
etc...

In terms of map received from maps, per map, per player
2 players = 1 map drops / 2 players * 2 runs per map = 100%
3 players = 1 map drops / 3 players * 3 runs per map = 100%
4 players = 1 map drops / 4 players * 4 runs per map = 100%
etc...

Kill speed (virtual DPS increase) (this is synonymous with XP per unit time)
2 players = 2 players DPSing / 1.5 monster health = 133%
3 players = 3 players DPSing / 2 monster health = 150%
4 players = 4 players DPSing / 2.5 monster health = 160%
etc...

Loot per unit time (kill speed times loot per kill)
2players = 75% loot per kill per person * 133% kill speed = 100%
3players = 67% loot per kill per person * 150% kill speed = 100%
4players = 62.5% loot per kill per person * 160% kill speed = 100%
etc...

XP per map
2players = 100% * 2 runs per map = 200%
3players = 100% * 3 runs per map = 300%
4players = 100% * 4 runs per map = 400%
etc...

No. Drawbacks. Whatsoever.

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iamstryker wrote:

Why is it a requirement that to achieve difficulty players have to compete against each other?

One of the great unanswered questions!

Scrotie are you really only arriving at your conclusion by adding in map cost?? Maps are cheap and so are alchs. Are you assuming that everyone who uses and enjoys PA are in full groups that share the cost of maps? I never do that. I open my party and run whatever maps that I want to run. Sometimes I just alt and augment which is cheap as hell.

Kill speed is a result of the game being too easy in a party which is not the fault of PA. Partying has always been too easy on any looting system in this game.

You can believe what you want but I certainly don't get more loot using PA. Its just a play style. I really think your wasting your time being upset that people are using PA.

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iamstryker wrote:

Scrotie are you really only arriving at your conclusion by adding in map cost?? Maps are cheap and so are alchs. Are you assuming that everyone who uses and enjoys PA are in full groups that share the cost of maps? I never do that. I open my party and run whatever maps that I want to run. Sometimes I just alt and augment which is cheap as hell.

The point is that there are zero drawbacks. You get XP much faster, you spend less on maps and the currency to modify them, and you still get everything else just as fast.

It's easier to be generous when you're in the land of plenty.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

Scrotie are you really only arriving at your conclusion by adding in map cost?? Maps are cheap and so are alchs. Are you assuming that everyone who uses and enjoys PA are in full groups that share the cost of maps? I never do that. I open my party and run whatever maps that I want to run. Sometimes I just alt and augment which is cheap as hell.

The point is that there are zero drawbacks. You get XP much faster, you spend less on maps and the currency to modify them, and you still get everything else just as fast.

It's easier to be generous when you're in the land of plenty.

So go to a "group vs solo play" thread, this one is about the loot system.

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Sickness wrote:

So go to a "group vs solo play" thread, this one is about the loot system.

I'm not saying that these group bonuses should be removed, or even changed. (I haven't always held this position.)

What I am saying is that you can afford to get ninja'd (to include maps) and still be ahead, due to the nature of partying alone.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

So go to a "group vs solo play" thread, this one is about the loot system.

I'm not saying that these group bonuses should be removed, or even changed. (I haven't always held this position.)

What I am saying is that you can afford to get ninja'd (to include maps) and still be ahead, due to the nature of partying alone.

Yes. And given that fact, people still avoided playing in groups! What does that tell you?

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Sickness wrote:

Yes. And given that fact, people still avoided playing in groups! What does that tell you?

That something like a karma system is needed to make the SA system less reliant on blind decisions and trusting strangers. Not necessarily that karma system; just some kind of additional, information-providing mechanic.

Not that GGG needs to give up on its principles.

Oh, and it wasn't that many people. Most everyone still partied for the bonuses, but raged when they'd get their stuff "stolen." A few of these ragers started very popular QQ threads.