Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Kalriostraz wrote:

The way I see it is those who enjoy FFA will continue to play that way. I see almost no reason why they/you would stop unless there is inherently something wrong with FFA..

Unless FFA loot has some bonus compared to any other loot options no one would play it.


Currently, there is nothing wrong with FFA. But, if you bring a shit load of loot options people will flock the easiest one. So, basically there would be no point for FFA.


Why would i want to play public FFA games and fight over loot if i could just have my own simple drops.

So, if they do otpions they need to remove all party loot rewards. There needs to be areason to play FF if the start making these changes.


B

The game already has simple non competitive drops. The question is "why not in public games?"

FFA should exist because people enjoy it, not because the game needs this kind of artifical difficulty.

I think everyone agrees that the current game needs to be more difficult in parties. Its a cake walk.

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Vooodu wrote:

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Kalriostraz wrote:

The way I see it is those who enjoy FFA will continue to play that way. I see almost no reason why they/you would stop unless there is inherently something wrong with FFA..

Unless FFA loot has some bonus compared to any other loot options no one would play it.


Currently, there is nothing wrong with FFA. But, if you bring a shit load of loot options people will flock the easiest one. So, basically there would be no point for FFA.


Why would i want to play public FFA games and fight over loot if i could just have my own simple drops.

So, if they do otpions they need to remove all party loot rewards. There needs to be areason to play FF if the start making these changes.


B

Fine. Then why do you enjoy FFA? You say there's no problem with it. But you also go on to say no one will play it if there are other options. If you actually enjoy FFA, why would you "flock" to the other options? IMO: Because you don't actually enjoy competing for loot. You enjoy griefing and trolling others. My opinion on those (like you) who keep insisting everyone will flock to the other options if introduced. If I'm wrong, then how about explaining how/why?

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iamstryker wrote:

The game already has simple non competitive drops. The question is "why not in public games?"

FFA should exist because people enjoy it, not because the game needs this kind of artifical difficulty.

I think everyone agrees that the current game needs to be more difficult in parties. Its a cake walk.

Excellent point. And how other games (like T2) "solved" this are no good, because if you ramp up enemy damage with # of people in party, everyone gets one-shotted and HC is almost impossible.

Back to looting, I started an anti-"ninja=kick" thread that got shut down (eventually) because it turned to looting. I saw many who think the current system STILL isn't fair, even with that nice long timer (yes it is very long now), etc.

I play on a slower machine than you. I know I do, I've asked around. It's a laptop for one. I have NO trouble getting my named items. Now, other items that are sought after, I rarely get, but that's the name of the game anyway.

I have NEVER seen in any party large numbers of people standing around good loot waiting for the timer to run out. Not even in games that say nothing about "ninja". Maybe occasionally one person swoops in and takes something I want, but they weren't just standing around.

Kick that person who stands around all the time and does nothing. But the loot system is fine, and people need to make more games that don't talk about "no ninja". There is no need to obsess about it. If you play on your own you'll get a TON of drops, I know because I've done it. If you can't play on your own AT ALL, then learn how to build a character.

Every criticism of the loot system has been an extreme example of people who should clearly be kicked from any party. Does anyone have an argument against the loot system where it is a problem even with reasonable players?

Party leaders take charge and defend everyone against this behavior, not just yourselves. That will fix it. I used to complain if I lost a named item, but no party leader has EVER stepped in on my behalf, IN a "ninja=kick" game. We see you.... We see you.

So, everyone, avoid these "ninja = kick" games and let them die as the sucky players all join them ;D

-Aaron

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Kalriostraz wrote:

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Vooodu wrote:

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Kalriostraz wrote:

The way I see it is those who enjoy FFA will continue to play that way. I see almost no reason why they/you would stop unless there is inherently something wrong with FFA..

Unless FFA loot has some bonus compared to any other loot options no one would play it.


Currently, there is nothing wrong with FFA. But, if you bring a shit load of loot options people will flock the easiest one. So, basically there would be no point for FFA.


Why would i want to play public FFA games and fight over loot if i could just have my own simple drops.

So, if they do otpions they need to remove all party loot rewards. There needs to be areason to play FF if the start making these changes.


B

Fine. Then why do you enjoy FFA? You say there's no problem with it. But you also go on to say no one will play it if there are other options. If you actually enjoy FFA, why would you "flock" to the other options? IMO: Because you don't actually enjoy competing for loot. You enjoy griefing and trolling others. My opinion on those (like you) who keep insisting everyone will flock to the other options if introduced. If I'm wrong, then how about explaining how/why?

You are misunderstanding his point. He likes the competition but recognizes the human nature in us all that if we're just guaranteed our own shiny stuff, we'll take the easy option. And some of the thrill will be gone. But more of us will be uber faster, and if that makes you happy, then you have an option right now without taking away FFA.

And it's not complete FFA! That loot timer is long enough now. Make it drop by the toon whose name is on it, maybe, and make that the end of these sorts of mods.

-Aaron

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aaronsan wrote:

You are misunderstanding his point. He likes the competition but recognizes the human nature in us all that if we're just guaranteed our own shiny stuff, we'll take the easy option. And some of the thrill will be gone. But more of us will be uber faster, and if that makes you happy, then you have an option right now without taking away FFA.

And it's not complete FFA! That loot timer is long enough now. Make it drop by the toon whose name is on it, maybe, and make that the end of these sorts of mods.

-Aaron

I'm not misunderstanding his point. He's ignoring mine, as are you now. Yeah, people will go and play instanced loot (if that ever even becomes an option) but to say that everyone will is where I disagree with you both. If everyone always played the easiest way, then why do games have difficulty sliders to begin with? If you don't get rewarded in game for playing harder, then why do speed run sites exist for things like 5%?

Yeah, humans like to have things easier. But many also thrive on competition. That's what I'm getting at. If you think FFA games won't continue to appear, then I think you're seriously underestimating peoples want to compete. If it makes you feel better, how about giving a special icon to uniques found in FFA? No impact on gameplay, but it still gives bragging rights to people.

Can someone post the patch notes for the loot system change? I haven’t had a chance to play the last few days and it is not listed on the announcements.

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Kalriostraz wrote:

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aaronsan wrote:

You are misunderstanding his point. He likes the competition but recognizes the human nature in us all that if we're just guaranteed our own shiny stuff, we'll take the easy option. And some of the thrill will be gone. But more of us will be uber faster, and if that makes you happy, then you have an option right now without taking away FFA.

And it's not complete FFA! That loot timer is long enough now. Make it drop by the toon whose name is on it, maybe, and make that the end of these sorts of mods.

-Aaron

I'm not misunderstanding his point. He's ignoring mine, as are you now. Yeah, people will go and play instanced loot (if that ever even becomes an option) but to say that everyone will is where I disagree with you both. If everyone always played the easiest way, then why do games have difficulty sliders to begin with? If you don't get rewarded in game for playing harder, then why do speed run sites exist for things like 5%?

Yeah, humans like to have things easier. But many also thrive on competition. That's what I'm getting at. If you think FFA games won't continue to appear, then I think you're seriously underestimating peoples want to compete. If it makes you feel better, how about giving a special icon to uniques found in FFA? No impact on gameplay, but it still gives bragging rights to people.

Fine not EVERYONE. He was using exaggeration for effect, and you are taking it literally in order to nitpick.

I see no need to complicate things in the way you suggest but I trust in GGG.

-Aaron

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wrathmar wrote:

Can someone post the patch notes for the loot system change? I haven’t had a chance to play the last few days and it is not listed on the announcements.

Because nothing has changed =p

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Kalriostraz wrote:

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Devilnaut wrote:

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mibuwolf wrote:

To further back up my point a bit:

Dark Souls and Demon Souls were seen as games that had a very select audience in mind. In Dark Souls 2 there are plans to add difficulty selection. It's a hot issue because it will no longer be the vision that Dark Souls used to be, but then again the difficulty is STILL THERE. I believe it is a smart decision to include a wider audience for 2 reasons:

1. wider audience brings more players for further support/development for future products/services
2. wider audience brings more players so that multiplayer has a chance of lasting longer.

I disagree with this. DS and DkS are two of my very favourite games. IMO what would happen with a lower difficulty is that many players would opt to take the path of least resistance and ultimately have a much less rewarding experience for it. The first time they died to a difficult boss some people would switch over to easy, steamroll the game, and then forget about it.

I like DS precisely because it didn't allow me to control everything and push it around.

So you would too? Sorry, but this is why I have trouble understanding the Pro-FFA/No-options side. Just because the game can be easier, how does that detract from your experience? I play almost all my games on the hardest setting now, even if I wait for the second playthrough (story, learning game mechanics etc the first time). Doesn't mean I'm not tempted, but I ultimately know I'll have enjoyed the game more if I beat it at it's most punishing. DMC springs to mind where this is true (the old ones, can't speak to the new).

In case you missed it my question is thus: How/Why does having different loot options detract from your experience? What I keep getting is: Because then I and everyone else will only play the "easier" way. Because we have no self control.

The way I see it is those who enjoy FFA will continue to play that way. I see almost no reason why they/you would stop unless there is inherently something wrong with FFA. Sure it'll be the most ruthless/cutthroat people playing, but isn't that the point? Isn't that what you want? To be constantly competing to the best of your ability for the best drops? Unless your thrill comes from grabbing things from people who aren't paying attention and will cry when you do. Of course, then your just a griefer and I could give a damn what you think. Just my two cents.

Personally I think the looting in POE needs work. I don't like the FFA set-up. I just don't think that Demons Souls and Dark Souls difficulty options is the right example to use, because to me this is one clear case where the option WOULD cheapen the game.

Personally I think that FFA loot itself kind of cheapens POE a little bit, I really can't see it giving players a deeper experience the way that challenging difficulty in Dark Souls does.

I do however see the point in developers putting their own vision for a game *before* the whims of the player base. I'm sure that James Joyce could've made his novels easier to read, but he didn't because though that would've pleased a number of people in the short term, in the end it is just not the way he meant for them to be presented.