jsp and PoE

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thepmrc wrote:

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faerwin2 wrote:

an economy will always balance itself (and as long as there isn't bots/hacks/exploits, it will be possible to deal with for newcomers, ESPECIALLY since orbs are consumables).

Valid point. D2Jsp did not wreck the D2 economy by any means. Botting, Duping and importing did.

D2 didn't pretend to have a balanced trade economy before D2JSP showed up. Not really a valid comparison.

How about to stop with D2 comparison, D2 was made 14 years ago.... the year now is 2012 the gaming changed since then so the gamers.

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erenhardt wrote:

You can trade here, on forums.
You dont need to go anywhere else.
The only thing you cant do here is buying gear with not in-game currency.

This is exactly how it should be. How well/long you played D2/D3/WoW/etc should not give you an advantage in PoE. It's the same as $$ trades. You're taking wealth from something completely irrelevant and using it to gain an edge in this game. Personally, I hope GGG enforces this and bans people for trading with $$ and jsp alike.

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thepmrc wrote:

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wxyjac wrote:

I used d2jsp before; but not because I want to buy items with real money, but because d2 lacks a proper trading platform.

It's very hard to go game to game, asking random person "WUG" and then see if he has items you would want to buy. Even making your own game specific what you want takes very long time to find a trader; and sometimes that trader doesn't want the item you're offering for it.

What d2jsp do, is provide a trading platform for players, buying fg with real money is just their way of making money from it.

PoE, while still in beta; already have a decent enough way to find buyer in game. It still can be improved, as you can't trade with player not online the same time with you, but there's no need for a third party.

Very true. D2JSP was by far the best way to trade on D2. I never invested a cent of real money but was able to trade items for FG and FG for items to actually get what I wanted/needed from what I had... this sure beat the hell out of sitting in a trade game for days trying to trade a random item for a bunch of hrs that would just poof when I left the game....

In short, JSP will live as long as in game trading is cumbersome... or if you try to take a % of the trades....

The majority of people posting here have no idea what JSP really is apparently. You don't directly buy items for cash. You can buy Forum Gold with cash, FG can be used to customize your account. You can also use FG as a barter against items/currency in a multitude of online games. This gives players a platform to trade their WOW gold to get into D2 or vice versa. This is a service to the gaming community imo, nothing wrong about it.

Lol. People who actually use D2JSP also know that the website owner also randomly gives out FG to his friends and although doesn't directly condone botting, freely allows botters to organize bot runs all the time on his website. He doesn't give two shits as long as he is making money.

It shouldn't be allowed to utilize D2JSP, and anyone caught should be banned/warned or something. D2JSP can easily allow people to bot in other games and utilize that as an advantage over other players in Path. We shouldn't condone the usage of it at all, period. If we can't punish users, the very least we can do is severely discourage users from utilizing the website.

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Chris wrote:

I still hate d2jsp!

QFT

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rabidwolf9 wrote:

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erenhardt wrote:

You can trade here, on forums.
You dont need to go anywhere else.
The only thing you cant do here is buying gear with not in-game currency.

This is exactly how it should be. How well/long you played D2/D3/WoW/etc should not give you an advantage in PoE. It's the same as $$ trades. You're taking wealth from something completely irrelevant and using it to gain an edge in this game. Personally, I hope GGG enforces this and bans people for trading with $$ and jsp alike.

Actually it does give you an advantage. The more ARPG's you play, the more you understand how an economic system in a game works, what makes a build viable, and the overall skill necessary to succeed.

You can change the face of everything but at the core, it's the exact same thing.

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Deux wrote:

Id rather spend 1000$ on in-game items than.. 1000$ creating my own.

What has your enormous amount of support granted you that noone else can have, besides a pet and an item named after you?

I don't see how thats an ego boost, id just laugh if someone did it to boost there epeen. That and the fact that only noobs probably boost your ego with it by gloating or hating over an item they probably will never have.

Fair enough re: your preferences. I am entirely and completely against pay-to-win, not because I can't play that way, but because I believe it utterly destroys the spirit of the game. It's that simple.

I also believe you are rather ignorant as to how the unique item portion of the Diamond Support works.

The item isn't named after me -- I designed it, pretty much from the ground up. The devs helped balance it, but I decided the theme, wrote the flavour text and very carefully dictated the artwork.

Also, the item drops in-game. I've seen people trading it, talking about it, etc etc. Like I said, quite the ego boost, but when people slam it, it teaches me to care a little less about people's uninformed opinions too.

As was almost the case here. Almost.

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jackals1234 wrote:

I'm not ragging on people spending $1000 on this game. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy in thinking it "ridiculous" to spend real money on in-game items while at the same time thinking it reasonable spending excessively MORE real money on creating an in-game item (amongst other things, all virtual). Whether you can technically get the items in-game for free or not is hardly the point.

Personally, i've never bought anything myself but i COMPLETELY understand why people do. Especially those who have a healthy income but limited play time.

Actually, Diamond Supporters also get a bunch of physical, signed swag. And as Reaper pointed out, we get to contribute an idea to something tangible, a game that we believe will do quite well. We paid to realise an idea, a concept. There's really no comparison between that sort of involvement in the actual creation of a game and buying items that anyone else could have found, and buying said items from other players where not even a single cent goes to the developers.*

None.

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I don't have tons of money to spend on real money transactions, but I've come to understand that if people who put a serious amount of time into work want to pay other people for THEIR time, I don't see the problem with it personally. These games are all about trading, and most items represent some time value spent acquiring them. Personally I don't find it that unreasonable to trade things out of game for things in game, because PL'ing for gold is essentially the same thing, someone pays gold for something that exists outside of the game - someone's time sitting in front of a computer screen.

I think spending 1k$ on the game is perfectly fine, if you have the money and it makes you happy. The idea that how you spend your money to be happy is better than the way someone else does is pretty self-centered though. They are happy having a geared out character, you are happy having some piece of content in game. You're both spending money to increase the amount of fun you have.

As far as pay-to-win, if time invested factors into who wins or loses more than simply the skill component, you're taking that thing way too seriously. Buying gear isn't the only way someone can win in that sort of system - I should know, I was friend's with the first high warlord on my server, who got there by rotating playing the game with two of his real life friends (he never logged off except when servers were down for about two months). Boiling it down into a transaction for a single item honestly eliminates a lot of the potential for fraud compared to paying someone to play your account.

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Actually, Diamond Supporters also get a bunch of physical, signed swag. And as Reaper pointed out, we get to contribute an idea to something tangible, a game that we believe will do quite well. We paid to realise an idea, a concept. There's really no comparison between that sort of involvement in the actual creation of a game and buying items that anyone else could have found, and buying said items from other players where not even a single cent goes to the developers

I couldn't disagree more. You simply think that way because you love PoE and don't happen to like buying in-game items for real money. That's purely personal preference. You are right that there is no comparison though, in that spending $1000 on an "idea" is leagues above in-game item buying in the laughable department. If i asked random unbiased people (those who don't play video games or play very casually) what is more ridiculous, spending $50 on an in-game virtual item or $1000 for the stuff you get as a Diamond Supporter, there is no question what the majority of people would say. In fact, as you can see from many of the replies in this thread, most would rather spend $1000 on in-game items, if anything.

Again, i'm not saying there is anything inherently wrong with spending $1000 on whatever the heck you want. I'm saying it is absurd to do that and then turn around and make fun of people who spend a fraction of that on in-game items, which DIRECTLY improve their gameplay experience. The fact that one is contributing to an "idea" and one is an actual in-game item is completely irrelevant. Just as whether or not you think it is immoral to buy in-game items for money.

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jackals1234 wrote:

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Actually, Diamond Supporters also get a bunch of physical, signed swag. And as Reaper pointed out, we get to contribute an idea to something tangible, a game that we believe will do quite well. We paid to realise an idea, a concept. There's really no comparison between that sort of involvement in the actual creation of a game and buying items that anyone else could have found, and buying said items from other players where not even a single cent goes to the developers

I couldn't disagree more. You simply think that way because you love PoE and don't happen to like buying in-game items for real money. That's purely personal preference. You are right that there is no comparison though, in that spending $1000 on an "idea" is leagues above in-game item buying in the laughable department. If i asked random unbiased people (those who don't play video games or play very casually) what is more ridiculous, spending $50 on an in-game virtual item or $1000 for the stuff you get as a Diamond Supporter, there is no question what the majority of people would say. In fact, as you can see from many of the replies in this thread, most would rather spend $1000 on in-game items, if anything.

Again, i'm not saying there is anything inherently wrong with spending $1000 on whatever the heck you want. I'm saying it is absurd to do that and then turn around and make fun of people who spend a fraction of that on in-game items, which DIRECTLY improve their gameplay experience. The fact that one is contributing to an "idea" and one is an actual in-game item is completely irrelevant. Just as whether or not you think it is immoral to buy in-game items for money.

I'm pretty sure they didn't spend $1000 to get anything tangible. I'm speculating, but I suspect they paid $1000 to support a developer team that they believe in and that deserves it. It's a donation like any other charitable donation that people spend thousands and thousands of dollars on every year. Anything else they got out of paying that $1000 is simply gravy, and the dev's way of saying, "Wow, thanks."

Who's to say that donating to the Girl's Scouts or Planned Parenthood (both of which receive millions of dollars in donations every year) is inherently better than donating to a dev team that makes a game you love?

Comparing that to spending money on in game items is rather silly.