[April 12] Initial Development Manifesto Feedback

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PuppetYuber wrote:

Since some of the developers from GGG worked on D2 (from what I have heard), I am sure they also evaluated their choices and decided to make POE server-sided. Most, if not all, of the points you have made are more or less subjective and perhaps selfish; similar counter arguments can be made from the other side of the spectrum (i.e., I stopped playing D2 because of the massive dupe/hack, ruined the game experience for me despite of how well the game ran at the time).

Lets just put faith on GGG to make server-side game work.

Your last line really is the nail in the coffin. The way they are planning to make it work is not a good solution at all. No matter how well Chris tried to spin that 'Rubber banding is good', it doesn't fly with me - it has made me lose faith in future of PoE if anything.

I am sure they evaluated their decisions, I am just giving my opinion on why I believe they made the wrong decision. It is not like all companies make perfect decisions - and sometimes short cuts lead to bad decision (I see the server sided choice as a short cut personally in not having to deal with making anti-hacking systems).

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Dissolator wrote:

i think that "physical on-critical" effect should depend on weapon type, for example: Maces - stun, Swords/Bows/Daggers - pierce (foe drains % of life for N seconds, m.b. different variations for Bow/Daggers), Claws - extra (and instant?) life leech, Axes - wound (m.b. makes foe weak(makes % less dmg) and more vulnurable (gains % more dmg) for N seconds), and so on.)

+1

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As a long-term change, we will be making sure that many monsters have the ability to deal area of effect damage so that they're more challenging to parties and summoners.

Probably this was already mentioned, but to read all the pages is just to much and more often it's said the better.
This will not make it more challenging for summoners, this will make it impossible with current state of summoner builds. Any kind of mobs with aoe just annihilate all my summons. Especially all alchemist and fire aoe mobs, always feels. like they kill them instantly.
Possible solution could be to add to every 10% minion life nodes 5% to all resists + chaos, or add +5% chaos resists to all minion dmg nodes. And add +8 reists + chaos to all big summoner nodes and +15% to lord of the dead. And/or buff necromantic aegis buy adding 2x/5x multiplier, this key stone is totally useless right now.

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To start with, I should note that we are currently planning to add several modes for Loot Allocation in parties: Full Free-for-all, something close to the current system, and a mode with longer allocation duration for people who don't want to deal with item tension. This decision was very hard to make because all of our developers are ninja-looters and love extreme item tension, but after talking with a lot of players, we realised that many people would have a lot more fun if we offered these options.

And they fucking caved in. Fuck you casuals and your fucking casual demands.
Apparently it's only a matter of fucking time before this game becomes just another D3. I didn't want to believe it. Fuck! And apparently when there's enough of shitty noobs whining on the forum GGG decides to fuck their core-players and do what the "majority" wants. Fuck this shit. Yes I fucking mad bro.

I would not have wrote it in that harsh and disrespectful manner but I can agree with the core of your statement. Sometimes you have to let go of some ppl that just want to play a different game, not THIS game. They are always free to find some friends and make up their own rules or just play sthg else.

re: Melee vs Ranged

I have an idea I'd like to throw out for consideration that i think could help adress areas
of imbalance, and do so in a unique, fun and non OP way.

A new game mechanic on skill gems called "Map Bonus" that only applies when the character is within a map area.

For example you have a melee physical gem with a Map Bonus of 5% attack speed.The extra attack speed only kicks in when you are in a map.

This new mechanic allows for easier end game balancing without affecting earlier content at all.


The Map bonus for each skill gem would be static rather than random to allow ongoing adjustments wihout messing characters up...IE all Melee Physical gems would get the same bonus.

This would also prevent players from becomming even more OP against lower level content than they already are

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Games using client action prediction like ours run into exactly the same sync issues that we do unless they cheat on certain aspects of the simulation. For example, it's common for Action RPGs to do some combination of the following:
Entities can hit each other from a long distance away
There's no chance to hit - all hits occur for sure
Various speed/collision concessions that make it easy to speedhack and/or walk through monsters with modified clients
Attack animations cannot be interrupted (i.e. what we treat as Stun).

For what it is worth, I don't see how the bolded ones pose any particular issue. Most people don't like accuracy anyway, they're running spells, or they're using resolute technique, or they're using lioneye's. When the majority of popular builds avoid the mechanic completely, compromising smooth feeling, responsive, and safe gameplay to preserve that mechanic seems foolish.

Hitting at longer range would just be nice in general. As we all know, ranged/AoE builds are much more popular, much stronger, and much safer than melee builds. Increasing melee range would not only improve the desync situation, it would also help melee builds be less bad.

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magicrectangle wrote:

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Games using client action prediction like ours run into exactly the same sync issues that we do unless they cheat on certain aspects of the simulation. For example, it's common for Action RPGs to do some combination of the following:
Entities can hit each other from a long distance away
There's no chance to hit - all hits occur for sure
Various speed/collision concessions that make it easy to speedhack and/or walk through monsters with modified clients
Attack animations cannot be interrupted (i.e. what we treat as Stun).

For what it is worth, I don't see how the bolded ones pose any particular issue. Most people don't like accuracy anyway, they're running spells, or they're using resolute technique, or they're using lioneye's. When the majority of popular builds avoid the mechanic completely, compromising smooth feeling, responsive, and safe gameplay to preserve that mechanic seems foolish.

Hitting at longer range would just be nice in general. As we all know, ranged/AoE builds are much more popular, much stronger, and much safer than melee builds. Increasing melee range would not only improve the desync situation, it would also help melee builds be less bad.

Entities can hit each other from a long distance away

This is exactly what happens in D3. I don't know if they designed it this way specifically as an anti-desync measure or not. I think having this happen is a problem, though not a particularly large one, and certainly not worse than desync. It was really only a minor irritation in D3.

There's no chance to hit - all hits occur for sure

I mentioned this earlier in the thread but I don't think to-hit is a particularly valuable mechanic. It's just a modifier on DPS and there are many other ways to modify DPS.

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Vakirauta wrote:

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mushioov wrote:

And they fucking caved in. Fuck you casuals and your fucking casual demands.
Apparently it's only a matter of fucking time before this game becomes just another D3. I didn't want to believe it. Fuck! And apparently when there's enough of shitty noobs whining on the forum GGG decides to fuck their core-players and do what the "majority" wants. Fuck this shit. Yes I fucking mad bro.

Calm your tits

Well this guy has the right to has his own opinion and his words of choice: it made me lol a bit..

Great read :)

Im looking forward to see what plans you have for improving inventory\stash panels, like background colors on items, more stats, easier management of items and so on...

I like a lot of the changes, especially the new loot options. I might actually give party play another try.

What I am missing though is more info about the upcoming new trading system. I am hoping it gets as close as possible to an auction house without actually calling it such (for the sensitive under us).