Will GGG ever stop balancing monster damage around 1000ex max defense builds?

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Dan1986 wrote:

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ArtCrusade wrote:

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Dan1986 wrote:

No, I was talking about "real melee", so what I meant was double strike or dual strike, not some kind of slam build. I know those are viable, but in the end that is the same as a caster build for me.

What if we are talking about ""real"" melee which is fists only regular attack? Why is the game not balanced around that ffs

Totally out of context what you are saying.

For me, melee is if you hit your opponent with a weapon. Slamming in the air, creating some waves (a spell?) is not the same.
If you feel different w/e I dont care. I just named it real melee to separate it from "melee" gems that do not behave like the mentioned gems.

you are stretching the definition now to suit you.
And for strike skill they are good... in single target dps because that's why the design of the spell is aiming at.
Glacial hammer/ele hit have the highest dps of the game.
If you want clear as melee you can do interesting flicker strike too.
And anyway if you dont like the clear of double strike you slap a explode chest on it like everything else and it will still clear a screen in a slash.

And for the "aoe" part even strike skill are not targeted spell anymore but a cone in front of you btw

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kiadaw wrote:

TLDR is, I think being skillful. has amazing reflect/spidersense, dodge & react skills etc should be an advantage, but NOT a neccesity in an ARPG. ARPG shouldn't be design to required players to have reactive skills like fast pace skill base action game like Ninja Gaiden, Dark souls.
The same way that action focus games like Dark soul, God of war shouldn't expect to have overly depth & complex skill trees that players need to min/max.

The thing is GGG try to hard to be Risk, monopoly, Tomb raider, Dark Souls etc which is not what many arpg gamers looking for in a game.

WHy it should be bad ? i play PoE for this too and with the people i play with/invited to the game play for that too.
Numbers show it please a lot of people too.

And anyway if you play trade league easycore you can just power through the game and never really interract with it at this point with a bit of investment the game become really quickly a joke with no skill needed.

If you feel like you should play that well it's maybe you play HCSSF But dont tell me you decided to play this league to have an easy experience ?

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Dan1986 wrote:

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ArtCrusade wrote:

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Dan1986 wrote:

No, I was talking about "real melee", so what I meant was double strike or dual strike, not some kind of slam build. I know those are viable, but in the end that is the same as a caster build for me.

What if we are talking about ""real"" melee which is fists only regular attack? Why is the game not balanced around that ffs

Totally out of context what you are saying.

For me, melee is if you hit your opponent with a weapon. Slamming in the air, creating some waves (a spell?) is not the same.
If you feel different w/e I dont care. I just named it real melee to separate it from "melee" gems that do not behave like the mentioned gems.

Well, maybe you want to refresh your memory of how strike skills work for a couple patches already before you boldly claim such things.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Well, maybe you want to refresh your memory of how strike skills work for a couple patches already before you boldly claim such things.

What do I claim here? I claim nothing. I say what is melee for me. It doesnt have to be the same for you.

Did you actually try something like dual strike in endgame? Without top end gear? I did that selffound. Also I have seen other streamers try it. And by trying I mean I took the build to endgame. It worked but it was cumbersome, with a very optimized tree and basically all buffs/defenses I could get. On paper it was strong, but in game it was much worse than popular alternatives.

There is a reason why we only see Earthshatter or Earthquake (ES/EQ) for such a long time now. It's simply the best, undeniably, and the reason for that is that you don't have to touch the enemy. Sorry pal, that's no real melee for me.

Flickerstrike is a different story. It is melee, but it is always high risk. You don't know what you throw yourself into. And it also gear dependent, like any good melee build. And in any case it is worse than ES/EQ.

Most skills are gear dependant pal.
Only the very best for competitive play does not and there aren't many.
Even the vast majority of spell are bad by your standart of ssf.
Gl going stormcall shocknova blazzing salvo or w/e without really good gear.
Same for most melee skills maybe because the game is designed to be this way and EQ/ES & BB/BF /DD are the exceptions ?

They will probably get nerfed in the near future anyway

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Dan1986 wrote:

What do I claim here? I claim nothing. I say what is melee for me. It doesnt have to be the same for you.

Did you actually try something like dual strike in endgame? Without top end gear? I did that selffound. Also I have seen other streamers try it. And by trying I mean I took the build to endgame. It worked but it was cumbersome, with a very optimized tree and basically all buffs/defenses I could get. On paper it was strong, but in game it was much worse than popular alternatives.

There is a reason why we only see Earthshatter or Earthquake (ES/EQ) for such a long time now. It's simply the best, undeniably, and the reason for that is that you don't have to touch the enemy. Sorry pal, that's no real melee for me.

Flickerstrike is a different story. It is melee, but it is always high risk. You don't know what you throw yourself into. And it also gear dependent, like any good melee build. And in any case it is worse than ES/EQ.

I exclusively play SSF and yes, I have played strike skills plenty of times - not that it matters for the discussions. But you seem to care about that, so there you go.

Different builds require different levels of investment to function well in endgame, that's always been the same. I've played plenty of slam skills since gearing is simple, but strike skills can scale so much better into endgame. You cannot argue on the basis of scuffedness. This game is more complex than what you want this argument to be.

Honestly, I have no idea where you are going with this.

As the resident casual n00b hoarder that plays since 1.3.0, mainly melee and I do mean REAL MELEE, one of the things I enjoyed about the previous Static Strike before the rework was that it actually allowed you to feel BADASS.

You had to jump in the middle of the packs, start hitting then EXPLODE. It was great.

Sadly the "puny zap" rework that killed the single target damage forced me to swap to Smite - which doesn't have to this day either a lightning or purple MTX variation "because reasons" - and I still miss that playstyle - REAL MELEE lightning based skills are non-existent since then >.<

The main problem of the game is that everyone speeds up, due to the power creep - which funnily is still insufficient to manage all content without crutches like warcries for SLAMS, those that think otherwise are welcomed to try to manage in a timely manner actual end game content with REAL MELEE DUAL WIELDING RT and NO DOT SCALING, then come and brag about "mUh PoWa CrEeP" (even those cool 1K 1H and 1.6K 2H will not be enough ^^) - and that even with dialing the difficulty down, TencentGGG are adamant about keeping obsolete aspects in the game - the dreaded "sanctioned" log out that centers the spiky/post death damage as the "best way to kill players"...

They could improve PoE on so many levels, if only they comprehended how to properly implement DIMINISHING RETURNS for their asinine multiplier + additive damage scaling, or if they actually implemented a SANE DANGER/REWARD RATIO CURVE for content, be it loot or EXP.

The game doesn't need to be slowed down.

It simply needs to give PROPER PURPOSE TO VARIOUS PLAYSTYLES.

Sadly, all those seem "impossible" these days, as the ineptitude of TencentGGG is more blatant every damn league - technical problems galore, and the silence is overwhelming...

The worst part is that PoE 2 will not be the "holy grail" for all the interested parties, and as much as I enjoy "casualization" at times, I dread to even think about it's impact in PoE...

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Dan1986 wrote:

No, I was talking about "real melee", so what I meant was double strike or dual strike, not some kind of slam build. I know those are viable, but in the end that is the same as a caster build for me.

Yes those skills expose you to much more damage, bosses are designed to desperately try to scratch casters spamming VD or any spells from the border of the screen

As soon as you get close and become immobile with self cast (which means not only strikes but also self cast with close range) you become exposed to more boss skills or it becomes more hard to dodge these

Every boss is an example from the Warden slams, Merveil ice stream + ice rain + ice nova, Dominus ice stream and slam, up until the end game bosses Shaper + Elder spams, Maven cascade of pain, Atziri hell + Shaper beam + the feared overlapping spams etc

GGG is adamant that facetanking should not exist, but it is totally fine if you use BV or Cyclone and simply walk under or around a boss/mob animation before it completes and receive 0 damage. In any other game it would be flagged as glitching game mechanics here, or the damage is "locked/unkitable" as soon as the sync animation starts so you can't glitch it.

Or in case of white mobs you walk in range and deal insta damage (no windup time aka cast/attack time) before the mob even starts the damage animation (still close to pure glitching a game)

Right now speed is the best tank, which would not be bad per se, but in this game with niche application it has no limit and snowballs to hypersonic levels that you skip all kinds of mechanics like 100% delirium, boss phases, basic mob attacks everything

Balancing well is hard balancing around randomly killing people sometimes for no apparent reason isn't.

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gageris wrote:

I am just wondering, nowadays having 6k hp, 90 phys, 88/88/88 elemental, 75 chaos is not nearly enough defense not to get 1shoted all day long.

I do understand that running tripple dmg / crit moded maps should be hard and RIPpy, but in maps without these dmg mobs/ressist reduction? At this point it doesn't matter what you run, you get roflstomped by monsters in any mods (either it's dmg mods or not).

GGG proved being clueless during delirium league, when they introduced a lot of 1shotty mechanics on monster deaths "to counter zoom zoom builds" but in reality slow builds got gutted by these on-death mechanics. Now we have same thing happening - immortal builds are still immortal, but the majority of builds suffer from mechanics, that are supposed to kill the immortal ones.

Leave these 10000ex builds be, don't try to balance the game, so there is something in the game that can kill it. When you introduce something that will hit 5000dmg to these 1000ex builds, simple casual 10ex builds will get hit 100000 dmg by it.

If you can't beat something in 6 attempts, maybe something is wrong with your build. BTW, your "90% phys reduction" is an ESTIMATE which goes down the harder you're hit. Look at the tables on the wiki. They are closer to the truth.

I'll give you a good tip: Use lvl 1 CWDT with lvl 3 Immortal Call with expendable Endurance Charges.

Edit: If you want to actually mitigate 90% of a 6k phys hit, you'd need 540,000 armor.