Beware People Scamming Shavronne's Wrappings
" I hope I didn't fully come across as seemingly providing GGG a set of excuses, where they can toss their hands up, for having poor UI, or their insane stubbornness and inflexibility with other forms of trading, including an AH, and leaning on 3rd party PoE tools to handle things they absolutely should be doing themselves. In fact, my intention in bringing up those other non-trade window situations and services in the context of being tradeable, was to highlight that they have expanded the player to player interactions where problems can arise. (not to mention making currency directly related to power progression through crafting which pushes the desire to have currency) So while I don't think anyone expects GGG to eliminate gaming toxicity (it's impossible), I do agree with you fully, that overall, they are doing a shitty job regarding player experience, and they are MORE THAN capable of doing much better in this area. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44#6905 on Oct 1, 2020, 12:52:30 AM
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" That's not possible, because if you press accept and they then change the item then your accept is cancled and the trade windows gets red and you have to put your mouse over the item again before you can do a new accept. |
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Look, if you learn that people in life will try to rip you off by spending some fake 'hard-earned' video game currency, you just bought a life lesson for thousands, sometimes millions, less than some people do in real life.
And dont tell me you are already aware, or you wouldnt fall for it in PoE either. You start out life trusting, and then you learn. If you can do it in PoE for cheap, then you win. Also, GGG is not mommy and daddy kid, they arent here to hold your hand and protect you from yourself, so stop begging. Last edited by trixxar#2360 on Oct 1, 2020, 2:06:50 AM
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...Do you think people go out of their way to show they're precisely the sort of unempathetic jerks I'm talking about, or does it just come naturally to them, here where there are no repercussions for unsubstantiated machismo?
Hm. Either way, only on the internet, folks. And especially in a corner of the internet where the ultimate authority is perfectly cool with their customers screwing each other over as long as they keep buying them support packs. I suppose every time one of these 'caveat emptor' sycophants DOESN'T fall for a scam while others do they can feel a little bit more like the incredibly intelligent and special people they probably always thought they'd grow up to be. Let me make it plain Gotta make way for the homo superior! Path of Exile: validating the keyboard warrior's primal urges to profit from the unseen misery of others since 2012. I figure it's either that or, even worse, these trade predators are professional farmers, which means they're just poor bastards born in the wrong place at the wrong time. Either way, trade is not only encouraged by TencentGGG's 'balance' philosophy, it's pretty much expected -- and it's completely overrun with shitbags eager to con, steal and exploit their way through the game (whatever the fuck that might be at this point). And TencentGGG have done literally nothing for years to curb that behaviour in the best way available to them -- by making it somehow harder, by showing they're on the side of the innocent rather than the guilty. Is this the hardcore ARPG you've all been waiting for? If so, I despair for the genre. And they said *I* was bad at PoE. At least I made it out of act 1 and know how to use the /dnd function. El oh fucking el. I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. Last edited by Foreverhappychan#4626 on Oct 1, 2020, 2:54:47 AM
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" I sympathize. Whole internet is worse with each passing year. |
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" Diablo 3 only proved that having real money tied to the auction house is bad. Auction House itself is fine, which is why most games out there have them. And having an auction house will make your play no different than what it is now. Actually, chances are you'll be able to play the game more, because trading will be more efficient and you won't waste time whispering people. The people who would "play the auction house" are already playing the trade game by sitting in the hideout flipping. |
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" Let's take it back a notch. In D2 you lost all your shit if you didn't log in for 90 days. If for any reason you were unable to log in for that 90 day window -- POOF. Even back then, it was impractical to expect them to police everything, short of exploits, the player has to take some responsibility. Reminds me of one episode of Top Gear where they're in Vietnam looking at "high end" watches at much lower prices. It was fairly clear they were being sarcastic even without laying on the sarcasm. D3 was a pretty good showing of the dangers of integrating an AH so it's clearly not the magical fix a lot of people think it to be. But talking about humans in general - I think it was near the end of delirium I was doing multiple currency exchanges to help reduce the work for the merging. I had been doing multiple currencies and had been at it for a while. I do this exchange with one person but I'm worried I'm not paying enough and end up paying LITERALLY double the exchange rate the player was asking. Did the player let me know I was grossly overpaying? Nope. It's one thing to pay extra, its another to pay double. Based on the player's behavior it seemed they were well aware of the mistake. By the time I had realized I had mixed up my exchange rates they were already long gone and it's not like I could expect them to be willing to return the excess if they weren't willing to point it out in the first place. It was ultimately my responsibility and my mistake and for all I know that player probably got a lot more joy from my silly mistake than I would have if they had been completely honest. It's not like they even pulled a bait and switch all they had to do was not warn me. What I'm trying to say is that when you know there's always potential for someone to cheat you, you don't blindly trust you're getting exactly what you pay for. Real world example, you shop at a grocery store for groceries (excluding those pure farmer's market types) because they're probably not gonna sell you fake food - old or nearly expired food but still food. You wouldn't expect quite the same "reliability" as someone selling bags of oranges unbranded on the side of the road without even a stall setup (at least you shouldn't). And on a more serious note there was the case of a kid who was killed because he cheated some guy on ebay. I tried looking it up but given how long ago that was it's gonna take a lot longer than 5-10 minutes. If you remember it, the kid basically claimed to be selling some paintball gun (I think) but instead of the item it was just some brick and/or rocks. The buyer was so furious that he literally built a bomb and sent it to the address. If I recall correctly, they were able to trace it based on the battery serial numbers left behind in the fragments. Now mind you this was some 20/20 or abc news report I'm remembering back from the dial-up era, not some far-fetched conspiracy theory about a pizza place secretly trafficking in humans. Suffice it to say even in the real world you can't expect the authorities to police every "trade". Ebay was still in it's infant stages and had no protections in place really so the disgruntled seller had little recourse. I'm not justifying his actions, but explaining what led to the tragedy. To get "justice" for being wronged, he took it upon himself and took it to an extreme. It's not like this extremist behavior went away, but has actually gotten more common place. A year or few back a man had sent bombs to politicians of opposing view and just this week a woman was accused of attempting to send ricin. Even in the real world you can no longer expect human decency all of the time. Hell if you really want to delve deep into it the world was on the brink of annihilation with the "crisis" (not specified in case it falls under ToS politics) but the world was nearly destroyed because of people's inability to get along and a mistrust so deep it lingers to this day. I know this is all a bit much given the nature of the discussion, but I felt like pointing out its not really fair to blame the big bad gaming corporation for not devoting endless resources to police thousands of players and all their transactions. I don't think it's a lack of sympathy but simply impossible given human nature. Sure, people are less likely to rob and/or cheat you in the real world, but not even real world consequences are enough to abolish that behavior. Lastly, given the state of the world today I must admit I'm not all that sympathetic to people blaming the system when it's literally a matter of just taking a moment to actually verify you're getting what you're expecting. We're not talking life and death or even livelihood, but recreational enjoyment. Do I approve of asshattery? No, but knowing its always a possibility means its my responsibility as an individual player to protect myself. I also avoid "services" given there are no protections in place and I assume all the risk when engaging them. P.S. If I was actually able to login to game I probably would have never written all this mess. Yep, totally over league play.
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edit: whew, that got long quick (literally -- I typed it in something of a driven fury, but I believe you deserve nothing less. I don't do these much anymore, and now I'm remembering why!
" Really? I don't remember that, but I'll admit I probably never took that long a break from the game until I quit it for good. This seems somewhat unprofessional and unlike what blizzard was like at the time. But a quick round of google fu provides this relic from a much-beloved site: https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/90-day-account-poof.672760/ This seems the best explanation from that page: " So it was possibly a storage issue more relative to that era than now. which means that " might not be as relevant as you are arguing here? " How is this relevant? I mean, I'm not denigrating it, I'd just like to know why it reminds you of that. Connect the dots for poor old me, please. :) " Completely agree -- willing to bet I was in old global chat long before most of these people arguing against the dreaded AH of That Other Game. That said, we know that at least two forms of Path of Exile do have in-game marketplaces, and one of them isn't even due to system limitation. So it would, at this point, be redundant to argue that they'd ruin the game in and of themselves. But they are not a magical fix to an embattled community at the mercy of scammers and con-folk (I can't in good conscience call them 'con artists' because it doesn't take any sort of art to take advantage of a system that might as well have a sign on it saying 'press M to scam others'). " I think it's fair to say that what you did and what people do when they're falling for item-switch scams are absolutely different things beyond the very vague 'human error' category. There was no active duplicity in your example wherein one might be deceived into giving the other player far more than their due. And I am not asking for 'blind trust' here -- I am suggesting that innocent human error induced by the malice of others should be reduced by the devs if they can, and in this case I believe firmly they CAN. " Did you really just try an analogy on me? I applaud your bravery! But alas, it was foolish. Still, you're in my world now. Too late... Real world example: you shop at a grocery store for groceries (excluding those pure farmers' market types) and when you put a prime rib down for scanning, the check out operator somehow swaps it for stewing meat while putting the prime rib away for themselves while you're distracted and packs it into your bag while you're still telling your kids NO THEY CANNOT HAVE A FUCKING CANDY BAR. For the tenth goddamn time. Also you're mostly worried about whether you'll make it out of there in time to beat the traffic because it's murder at this time of day and god your neck hurts and PUT THAT BACK INTO THE CART TIMMY!...now you may argue, 'but you should have been paying attention to the check out operator!'...really? You don't think this one's on the shop for not having the system in place to maybe discourage their employees from stealing from/ripping off customers? Maybe? We don't live in a completely libertarian society where you respond to that sort of theft personally, after all. If we did, you could just whip out your AR-15 or whatever and get that prime rib back real quick. Assuming the thief doesn't have two AR-15s and a bazooka in their pocket. And the same applies to PoE -- the scammers have all the power. And they know it, which is why they keep fucking doing it. TencentGGG's silence on the matter and their disinclination to address the issue from their end beyond vague lip service might as well be an invitation. There are certain situations in which you are not expected to be an eagle-eyed paranoiac, and I think trading in a game which is supposed to be about killing and looting shit is one of them. But hey, if y'all like having to be constantly on guard for arseholes just because TencentGGG don't give a shit either way, that's cool I guess...but if y'all were, we wouldn't have so many threads like this, would we? Or guides on the web for how to avoid being scammed (several of which led to RMT sites, much to my grim amusement). " I think this relates perfectly to what I said about about us NOT living in a society where that sort of extreme personal response is acceptable. " And he was wrong to do so. I get where you're going with this, but it's unfortunately utterly irrelevant to my argument. Do I need to spell out what I'm arguing for here? Because it definitely isn't active policing. Are you kidding? I don't trust Support to moderate a single chat channel and they don't exactly do a perfect job with the forum -- and you think I'd ask them to somehow become Super Scammer Cops? Dude, I was making 'please do not name and shame' posts on here and locking those threads before we even had a Support. I get the difficulty of policing it. I know the potency of a witch hunt. Which is why my suggestion is 100% a change to the game, not to its players. You don't need to police a crime that is effectively MUCH harder to perpetrate. Or, in even more cliched terms, 'prevention is better than cure'. Forgive me, but I'm going to skip a few paragraphs here because they are just more of what I've just refuted. I am not calling for active policing; I'm calling for improved security measures. I wouldn't consider them as rigorous as, say, deadlocks, but they'd certainly have the same function as an alarm system -- something suspicious happens, something very obviously changes and alerts you to it. OR, again, obvious distinction between the real thing and a replica. This is *not* hard for TencentGGG to implement, and if it is, they're far more myopic than I thought. Which, believe it or not, is not very much at all -- I think there's a lot of foresight and futureproofing in Path of Exile...but I hesitate to say there's all that much in its antiquated trading system. And it IS antiquated -- it effectively hasn't changed in 8 years. " I think relegating it to 'just a game' is a personal decision, not something you can impose on others. And if these easily preventable scams are upsetting them, are causing them to play less, and gosh, maybe even quit and not buy any more support packs, that might be something TencentGGG should think about. But we both know that for all the griping, being scammed is probably not enough to get someone to quit, to stop supporting. And thats what this will always boil down to -- it is simply not financially beneficial for TencentGGG to address this, even with something as simple as giving valuable items their own distinct look. And here's the funny thing: 6L back in beta used to be a LOT more distinct from 6S or 5L/6S. The links were much more visible imo. So we know they can definitely make links easier to see, and I reckon they CAN give 6L specifically a hard-to-miss look. Come on, it can't be that hard.
Old socket look and discussion
 Ugly? Absolutely. They needed to be improved, but I never thought the change was an improvement other than it didn't obscure the item art as much. What the game has now is not as colourblind-friendly; it's obviously harder to see the links. I refuse to believe there isn't a third option here: the visibility of the old look, the elegance of the new. I hear TencentGGG even pay people to do this sort of thing. Although whether they can be torn away from designing all those important mtxes is another issue... And this is not one of those 'slippery slope' arguments where some wit might rejoin, 'but Happychan, if they do this, the edit: and as I said before, I'm not going to address other forms of scamming like 'services'. Different problem, different solution. Baby steps are better than no steps at all, so let's start with reducing 6L item-switch scams. " That's okay -- I was alt-tabbed from Wolcen to give the devs some feedback, and this distracted me so I sort of left them hanging. WHOOPS! And they said *I* was bad at PoE. At least I made it out of act 1 and know how to use the /dnd function. El oh fucking el. I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. Last edited by Foreverhappychan#4626 on Oct 1, 2020, 6:10:11 AM
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" They absolutely should, you could kill off most scamming with appropriate tips that cover the most obvious tricks. "If your trade is cancelled with the right items, its very likely a scam, check the items" That covers like 80% of them already -_- |
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Loading times so slow you can read the loading screen tips?
plebs. :P Serious note: that would be about as effective as putting literal pictures of lung disease on cigarette packets. People don't see what they don't want to see. You know what they do want to see? That 6L they're trading for. Clear and bright as day and definitely not easily confused for anything but the 6L they're paying top orb for. And yknow, I don't think that's an unfair desire. And they said *I* was bad at PoE. At least I made it out of act 1 and know how to use the /dnd function. El oh fucking el.
I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. |
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