[3.20] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything

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Hemzokuken wrote:

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Breken wrote:

I'm still thinking that this rework was 100% about performance. Before the 3.12 patch, and after the last performance patch, I could crash my client 100% of the time (on Vulken) just by spinning in place for 10 seconds. This is after playing it that way all league. Whatever change they made made the Vulken client way more fragile in terms of Icestorm.

Maybe it's just helping the people with shitty pc's?

I had no issues with client crashes using ice storm or ever dropping below 50 fps on dx11.

Icestorm issues have never been about PC quality. Was that 50 fps with awakened spell cascade at over 3000 int? Without spell cascade 50 fps wasn't hard to keep up on Vulken. On dx11 I could easily drop my fps to 10 on an Nvidia 2070s. The computer CPU and GPU were both nowhere near maxing out. Maxed out icestorm simply made so many calculations that the server instance couldn't keep up.

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LiNGeN wrote:

I didn't read your entire post as I'm too hyped to focus on all of it, but no its not that simple. I don't understand your calculation of the duration.

If you would be selfcasting, and if you do it in "5 cast cycles", you would do more damage with a longer duration.

However, if you channel it, or selfcast really fast 6 times or more, what you are then limited by is the total cast speed * 5. Within that time are the amount of iceshards you want to calculate.

This is incorrect. I showed the math, so it's right there to clearly see.


You could have a 20 second ice storm duration, and you're still going to only be impacting 25 ice shards per second max.

You can't get around that. Look at the patch notes. It specifically says "one impact every 0.2 seconds" on top of "max of 5 storms at any given moment".

That means 5 shards per second X a max of 5 storms = 25 shards max per second.


So yes, the formula is literally 25 * your PoB Average Hit to figure out your DPS.

Duration doesn't change anything. The 5 * 5 is now a hard-coded fact.

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SkylerOG wrote:

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LiNGeN wrote:

I didn't read your entire post as I'm too hyped to focus on all of it, but no its not that simple. I don't understand your calculation of the duration.

If you would be selfcasting, and if you do it in "5 cast cycles", you would do more damage with a longer duration.

However, if you channel it, or selfcast really fast 6 times or more, what you are then limited by is the total cast speed * 5. Within that time are the amount of iceshards you want to calculate.

This is incorrect. I showed the math, so it's right there to clearly see.


You could have a 20 second ice storm duration, and you're still going to only be impacting 25 ice shards per second max.

You can't get around that. Look at the patch notes. It specifically says "one impact every 0.2 seconds".

That means 5 shards per second X a max of 5 storms = 25 shards max per second.


So yes, the formula is literally 25 * your PoB Average Hit to figure out your DPS.

Duration doesn't change that.

Mate what are you talking about?

Currently ice shards hit every .1 second and in 15 mins they will hit every .2 seconds. So more ice shards will hit every .2 seconds you extend it.

Our problem isn't increasing though it's the fact we won't even get the full duration out of 1 storm due to it resetting it's first storm every 1.2 seconds adding it to the front of the queue.

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SkylerOG wrote:

Spoiler

Not gonna go over this again I already posted at length. I think you misunderstand me anyway. Lets see what happens in 4 hours!

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LiNGeN wrote:

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SkylerOG wrote:

Spoiler

Not gonna go over this again I already posted at length. I think you misunderstand me anyway. Lets see what happens in 4 hours!

4 hours??? I'm testing in 12 mins :p

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Hemzokuken wrote:

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SkylerOG wrote:

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LiNGeN wrote:

I didn't read your entire post as I'm too hyped to focus on all of it, but no its not that simple. I don't understand your calculation of the duration.

If you would be selfcasting, and if you do it in "5 cast cycles", you would do more damage with a longer duration.

However, if you channel it, or selfcast really fast 6 times or more, what you are then limited by is the total cast speed * 5. Within that time are the amount of iceshards you want to calculate.

This is incorrect. I showed the math, so it's right there to clearly see.


You could have a 20 second ice storm duration, and you're still going to only be impacting 25 ice shards per second max.

You can't get around that. Look at the patch notes. It specifically says "one impact every 0.2 seconds".

That means 5 shards per second X a max of 5 storms = 25 shards max per second.


So yes, the formula is literally 25 * your PoB Average Hit to figure out your DPS.

Duration doesn't change that.

Mate what are you talking about?

Currently ice shards hit every .1 second and in 15 mins they will hit every .2 seconds. So more ice shards will hit every .2 seconds you extend it.

Our problem isn't increasing though it's the fact we won't even get the full duration out of 1 storm due to it resetting it's first storm every 1.2 seconds adding it to the front of the queue.

How is this so difficult to understand?

1 second / 0.2 = 5.

Max of 5 storms before storm 6 shards begin replacing storm 1's shards... duration be damned.

That's 5 shards max per storm with a max of 5 storms.

That's 25 max shards per second.... PERIOD.

The 26th ice shard through the 200th ice shard are not going to stack with the first 25.

As soon as that 26th ice shard impacts, the duration of ice storm #1 becomes irrelevant because ice shard 26 just replaced ice shard #1. Hence, you never have more than 25 individual ice shards stacked at any given moment.

You cannot have 26+ stacking/overlapping shards.


Not sure how you guys aren't getting that.

Comments in code don't necessarily match what the code actually does 8-).

We'll see shortly. I believe LiNGeN is going to run his char on standard as soon as he can and he'll let us know if we're doomed or not.

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SkylerOG wrote:

How is this so difficult to understand?

1 second / 0.2 = 5.

Max of 5 storms before storm 6 shards begin replacing storm 1's shards... duration be damned.

That's 5 shards max per storm with a max of 5 storms.

That's 25 max shards per second.... PERIOD.


Not sure how you guys aren't getting that.

Yes, this does make top dps easy to understand. Assuming constant casting and 5 stacked storms on a target, your DPS will never exceed 25 shards multiplied by PoB hit dps.

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Breken wrote:

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SkylerOG wrote:

How is this so difficult to understand?

1 second / 0.2 = 5.

Max of 5 storms before storm 6 shards begin replacing storm 1's shards... duration be damned.

That's 5 shards max per storm with a max of 5 storms.

That's 25 max shards per second.... PERIOD.


Not sure how you guys aren't getting that.

Yes, this does make top dps easy to understand. Assuming constant casting and 5 stacked storms on a target, your DPS will never exceed 25 shards multiplied by PoB hit dps.

Correct.

Someone else understands this.

All your numbers and theory are good and well...but in game feels can always be different and we have no idea. I'm about to run a t16 map too so will let you know my take on how good/bad it feels.