How Poe elites ruined Bestiary AND Incursion - Bestiary you will be missed.

This thread is still alive? I thought PoE elites already killed it with fire. Should be no problem for "them", OP claims "they" ruined two consecutive leagues with ease.

"They" certainly look scary, if one delves into the matter (pun intended).

I have a feeling that delve will be better than both. There is something about penetrating the earth and trying to go as deep as possible that should hit some dopaminergic nerves in most of us.

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Pyrokar wrote:

I have a feeling that delve will be better than both. There is something about penetrating the earth and trying to go as deep as possible that should hit some dopaminergic nerves in most of us.

I have to agree.

Altho we've pretty much been many times to the "abyssal depths" ... Delve seems to be a whole different level of depth, the map itself is ... let's say "hyping" imho.

All that I learned from here was that once you get past 2 challenges, you're officially an elite PoE player.

Bestiary had some cool ideas (especially from the fluff perspective), but they were executed poorly.

Instead of all "capturing beasts: stuff it could be resolved as this:
* Killed beast drops "Beast Fragment"
* You give this fragment to Einhar with a net
* He revives the beast to keep in menagerie [it may or may not have limits]
* You talk with him wat beasts to sacrifice for crafts and simply use a craft recipe without fighting at the altar.

I suppose there could be many other ways to improve Bestiary, better than this quick idea.

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You can only hold your breath for 30 sec before drowning.
You are poisoned and your life perpetually times down.
You have to always escort a death seeking AI "Expendable Phil, guide to the waters". If he dies, you die.
No map and the area you're in rearranges itself when off screen.
Player randomly explodes and dies.

have you see new Delve league annaouncement?

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Super mario would be a better comparison

We already have super-mario-lab do not fear

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Lewnatic wrote:

Flaws in the core game that where fixed (or tackled) by bestiary

a.) Powercreep: By Adding complexity in the play-style the game shifts it focus from Meta and clear speed towards rewarding the player for focus and slow play and to not one-shot everything. This was of course highly criticized by a lot of streamers, redditers, botters and RMTers because it felt "clunky".

What's clunky is trying to use more than one active skill in this game. Quickly switching from your spam skill to a curse to a warcry and back again just doesn't feel good as setting up as many triggers as blasphemies as possible and trying to faceroll. It's a game engine problem.

The only way around that is to play a build that doesn't have a spam attack skill like a Summoner or Totem build, but those kind of builds probably ran into their own problems in Beastiary.

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Lewnatic wrote:

b.) Leveling: There is nothing better than giving the player a way to let the player hit endgame earlier. A lot of those leveling recipes added to that and gave the player a lot of utility.

In terms of pacing, leveling is pretty OK right now. The time you spend leveling is basically how long it takes you to progress through the story zones while killing just enough enemies to keep your Quicksilvers up.

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Lewnatic wrote:

c.) Anti-RNG: Even though some of the unique beasts where very rare, the whole leveling related beastcrafts where completely deterministic which. But this not only counts towards leveling beastcrafts. Take the +3 white socket beastcraft and the +30% corruption beastcraft for example. In Incurions you can only have all white sockets OR +30% quality with a high risk of breaking your 6 link items, while in bestiary the crafting was always sucessfull(if you did not die in the altar).

This is actually a bad thing. If the game becomes too deterministic then people will lose interest. Sure there's a lot of RNG in the game, but you generally get what you need if you use what you get wisely. That's a learned skill from playing the game and is pretty much the only thing that keeps leveling first characters even remotely interesting instead of actually the worst.

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Lewnatic wrote:

Why is Incursion crippled by that?
...
1. No loot pinatas a.k.a Beasts that drop more loot than map bosses.

This is not required by any stretch, but if you want them, anyway, then there's generally a way to pull it off using Zana to put Torment on maps. It's been nerfed repeatedly, but it's still a thing you can do.

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Lewnatic wrote:

2. No quecksilver Adrenalin early.

A genuine drawback. Quicksilvers of Adrenaline are nice while leveling.

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Lewnatic wrote:

3. No Anti Curse Flask early.

This is not important. The dangerous curse enemies are in areas with enemies that typically don't do much damage, so you're basically doing this for a nasty Bringer of Weakness rare, that can actually kill you, which is a pretty freak occurrence.

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Lewnatic wrote:

4. No use for Roah feathers.

They're used for fishing, get with the program.

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Lewnatic wrote:

5. No 3 white sockets + 30% quantity.

IIQ is a stat that GGG very reasonably does not want to throw around willy nilly. If there was a deterministic method of obtaining this kind of stat, you could almost guarantee GGG would put in a global Quantity nerf.

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Lewnatic wrote:

6. No Beastarmor sets. Rip
7. No Aspects.a

I mean, they're kinda cool? They'll come back through Reliquaries in Delve, and that's likely to be a permanent addition to the game.

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XCodesLIVE wrote:

What's clunky is trying to use more than one active skill in this game. Quickly switching from your spam skill to a curse to a warcry and back again just doesn't feel good as setting up as many triggers as blasphemies as possible and trying to faceroll. It's a game engine problem.

It's not.
I personally feel like using only one skill and nothing else is just boring, I would rather use the whole skillset ( often I would like more shortcuts actually ), so that's not an engine problem, it's just something very subjective here.

2 challs, the guy didn't even try the league and says there's no ways to further character progress... like umm double corruptions and new vaal implicits? New unique items? /sigh screw bestiary.

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Paldamus wrote:

2 challs, the guy didn't even try the league and says there's no ways to further character progress... like umm double corruptions and new vaal implicits? New unique items? /sigh screw bestiary.

>You need to eat shit to know that it tastes not good.

Thats basically what you are saying. Most good beastcrafts are gone, loot pinatas are gone, deterministic progression of catched beast is gone. Incursion is just RNG gated content that was to stale for thousands of people. It was very exciting to use beastcrafting to get random uniques for example. Brutus lead sprinkler in SSF? No problem thanks to beastcrafting.

>Vaal implicits.
Yeah have fun to vaaling your 6 link loreweave with 80 max res and screwing your whole build over. Spending another 200h to get your currency back, I´d prefer the white sockets from bestiary. And even the 30% quality corruption of beastcrafts had a 100% succesrate.

Im not saying that the incursion corrupts are not juicy.(They are btw added to the game because of that) But my point here is, that the game would be even better WITH Bestiary. If they just gave the league a chance and polished the flaws.

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Just pointing out :
- you have never beaten Atziri
- you have never beaten the Pale council
- you have never beaten the Shaper

There are endgame goals, and two of those three are not that difficult to reach in SSF.

Just tell me, how often have you beaten those in SSF HC? But anyways i dont know what this has to do with Bestiary been played by more people than incursion. But like i said to Paldamus. >You need to eat shit to know that it tastes not good.


Its pretty interesting that people think that shit-eating is a requirement for knowing that something sucks.

All current problems are due to bad design decisions. Incursion is now the second temp league in a row that is not added to the game. So delve will feel like pre-Abyss league again. Sure there are some minor changes and balance tweaks. But incursion already felt like a -50% update because of all the content missing from bestiary. And delve will be even worse now, because two leagues are missing.

This all pretty much shows that GGG does not follow a long term game design philosophy and that they pretty much fishing in the dark via trial and error. Which is pretty much the problem of the games design lead, Rory. When looking at the presentations about "flaws" its pretty clear that there is no real intention in creating a well rounded game or polish poe.

Source: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=poe+rory+flaws+presentation&t=brave&ia=web

They literally just dont know what they are doing. Remove stuff that is awesome, like for example talisman league or warbands/tempests, bestiary to name a few.

Its a perfect example of a company that was growing faster than its team members. Rory is still a garage developer, while poE turnend into one of steams most played games considering its longterm success. Having declining player counts like in incursion is not a good sign for a company like GGG and im pretty sure tencent will not tolerate this further, and i hope they will actually get a all-star game designer in the future that actually knows what he is doing.

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Lewnatic wrote:

Incursion is now the second temp league in a row that is not added to the game.

Um, what?

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Qarl wrote:

Due to the league [Incursion] being such a success, we have worked out a plan to add it to the core game.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2197247

P.S. Also, I am not a POE elite and I have never posted on Reddit but I disliked Beastiary COMPLETELY. I thought it was the worst league I've played in, period. Interesting concept very poorly implemented.