GGG COMPLETELY fucked up endgame in Abyss...

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Johny_Snow wrote:

I cant talk about the rest but if tier 15-16 maps were easily accessible and guaranteed I'd get super bored and quit way earlier. Because honestly whats the point of trying to force 8 mod maps if you can go with an alch and sustain your tier 15s the way Harbinger worked? There is nothing to play for.

This is not a question of "easy accessibility" but guaranteed access if you demonstrate skill. The solution isn't to necessarily make T16s rain from the skies in every T14 or T15 you run. Furthermore, you're presuming than granting "easy" access wouldn't be coupled with making the fights much more difficult.

Just an aside, does it bother you that Guardians have guaranteed fragment drops? Would it be better design to have them drop once every 200 runs? Would you get bored less easily? Would that not be more consistent with GGG's claim that the game is centered around trade, because the average gamer would NEVER see Shaper unless that player trades for the fragments?

How about if GGG made a portal to Act 10 Kitava appear in ruined square once every 100 instances? Wouldn't that be great fun? Making instance after instance to feel that sense of pride and accomplishment when you finally find the portal? Once again, this would be entirely consistent with GGG policy of pushing players towards trade, right?

Doesn't matter, it is SC, people don't give a damn whether they die or not so increasing the difficulty of white trash you are one shotting anyway will be nothing in comparison to the much better accessibility of high tier content. Then you have every chump and their mother chaining tier 15s, vaaling becomes obsolete, running high tier maps becomes even more obsolete because the market will be drowned with opal rings, ilvl 84+ items and guardian fragments. When running the end game poses no risk to anybody that end game might as well not exist.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Doesn't matter, it is SC, people don't give a damn whether they die or not so increasing the difficulty of white trash you are one shotting anyway will be nothing in comparison to the much better accessibility of high tier content. Then you have every chump and their mother chaining tier 15s, vaaling becomes obsolete, running high tier maps becomes even more obsolete because the market will be drowned with opal rings, ilvl 84+ items and guardian fragments. When running the end game poses no risk to anybody that end game might as well not exist.

Your lack of imagination regarding how GGG could solve these issues is your problem - it's not a counter to what's being argued. The fact of the matter is that there are plenty of ways of making content accessible and not gated behind RNG AND making it more challenging.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

I cant talk about the rest but if tier 15-16 maps were easily accessible and guaranteed I'd get super bored and quit way earlier. Because honestly whats the point of trying to force 8 mod maps if you can go with an alch and sustain your tier 15s the way Harbinger worked? There is nothing to play for.

No one says that T15-16 maps should be easily sustainable with just 1 alch. But ATM, they arent sustainable even if you run 8-modded maps only with insane packsize/quantity, without deaths.

PoE players forgot, that endgame areas should be challenging, impose risks and be hard to clear with cheap weak builds. Because in PoE, strong builds oneshot everything on screen anyway, even without great gear.

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DicemanX wrote:

This is not a question of "easy accessibility" but guaranteed access if you demonstrate skill. The solution isn't to necessarily make T16s rain from the skies in every T14 or T15 you run. Furthermore, you're presuming than granting "easy" access wouldn't be coupled with making the fights much more difficult.

Except - it doesnt take skill to beat this sort of content.
Trust me. I can do it and Im not a good player. Mediocre at best.
All it takes is knowledge and time, time and again time.

Blame the power creep then. Ever since Ascendancy the game became super easy. Then GGG made it so clearing white trash and chaining lower tier great layout maps is the best way to play. Remove the tension every time you run a high tier map and it all becomes a complete hogwash. Right now one of the few things that keeps me going is seeing how far I can go and how many red maps I can collect. If that tension disappears I might as well give up on the game and play for a week every season.

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Orbaal wrote:

The mapping system is designed to be a currency sink.
Thats all it is supposed to do.
Draining currency out of the system, because every game like this needs an endgame currency sink in some way, shape or form.

In PoE its the mapping system and its getting the job done.
No reason to change anything from a devs perspective.

It's a very badly designed currency sink, then.

There are much better currency sinks - like crafting some top-rolled rares for example.

Wasting currency just to get access to hard area, and receive 0 returns from it is truly a bullshit idea for ARPG, especially for one with trading (like PoE).

I could understand it if i played SSF and had to waste tons of currency to get to Shaper and hope to get his powerful sword. But why should i bother when i can just buy it after i farm some currency? Killing Shaper myself feels like i'm going to waste my currency for nothing. It's very frustrating, and shouldnt happen in good game.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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Orbaal wrote:

The mapping system is designed to be a currency sink.
Thats all it is supposed to do.
Draining currency out of the system, because every game like this needs an endgame currency sink in some way, shape or form.

In PoE its the mapping system and its getting the job done.
No reason to change anything from a devs perspective.

It's a very badly designed currency sink, then.

There are much better currency sinks - like crafting some top-rolled rares for example.

Wasting currency just to get access to hard area, and receive 0 returns from it is truly a bullshit idea for ARPG, especially for one with trading (like PoE).

I could understand it if i played SSF and had to waste tons of currency to get to Shaper and hope to get his powerful sword. But why should i bother when i can just buy it after i farm some currency? Killing Shaper myself feels like i'm going to waste my currency for nothing. It's very frustrating, and shouldnt happen in good game.

Very bad example for a currency sink :)

It would only work, if you were forced to change gear on a regular basis and you were forbidden to trade. So crafting would be the only option to get good gear and you are forced to throw hundrets and hundrets of chaos orbs into crafting EACH day!

Thats exactly whats happening, if you are running toptier content and you are trying to sustain.
It will costs some hundret chaos a day, if you were pushing maps for an entire day.


Mapping is the only thing that everyone will do on a daily basis.
Therefore its the best possible currency sink available. If it wasnt mapping, GGG would have to come up with something else and they would be forced to force the new feature down our throats.
I doubt the community would like that better.

Careful what you are asking for.

For me endgame is tier 10-11. Im fine with that. I hate buying anything, so i just run random maps, reroll alot as i like leveling. Yes, im not rich, i dont use sextants, i dont sustain maps, i just run casually whatever i like. I tryed sextant blocking, vaaling and all that. Got nothing in return for about 10 maps. Too much hassle for me. No, thanks.

Running 59% quantity colosseum. Getting carcass + pit of the chimera out of it, lol