What's with the bandwagon hate on shaped maps and sextants?

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Mythkiller wrote:

I have literally never seen a system in an RPG where doing content the way it was designed (full atlas completion) was empirically worse than ignoring content even at the very endgame.

It just stupid as I_NO has already eloquently stated. Shaped maps were a good idea but I would not be sad to see that entire concept scrapped. Sextants? Its just a busted system that there is no way GGG expected to be used to the extent it currently is. A nerf is not a question of if, its a question of when.

As for atlas completion, I absolutely think with the removal of perandus manor, there should be some hefty bonus for achieving 100% atlas completion. Shit takes work and you should be rewarded not penalized for achieving it.

~Myth

I'll counter this with saying that shaping maps in and of itself is and has never been an issue.

Shaping just allows manipulation of content around lay-out strategies or div cards to allow targeted farming.
I don't see an issue with this because fundamentally lay-outs are not "good or bad" like most people perceive them. For some builds open maps are good, for others they suck balls and vice versa.(though truth be told some maps are bad for almost all types of build because they combine the two types, indoor/outdoor and are filled with mini ruble and stairs etc)

So allowing atlas manipulation as in shaping maps in different tiers is not an issue because depending on build and targeted farm other things will be shaped.(also the new system allows for fast/easy unshaping + re-shaping which is really good)

The sole issue currently are sextants. Since they are so efficient to utilize but only work on a few "good" maps.
All maps that don't have good sextant positioning are basically out of the mapping pool for no good reason beyond that.
GGG made all of this new content and added all of these atlas centered goodies (30+ new maps, shaper + elder fighting and positioning) and people just go "well fuck that, can't sextant and get rich from it, let some sucker explore that content and ruin his atlas"

And if sextants in itself are not bad enough of an influence on the atlas even the devs are influenced by them and balance xp gains around them, while the system can hardly be expected to be mainstream.
So for a lot of users without knowledge of them, mapping just feels like visiting a desert looking for an oasis.

The sextant system is so complex i do not believe the devs have the manpower to balance it correctly every league around and or that is even feasible. In fact, i would say they demonstrated it is not when they "simply" added 32 new maps without a care in the world about relative positioning and sextant influence.

If this is the case, then the correct move is to remove or overhaul it to a less impacting system soon, so they can rightfully ignore it for some time to come while focusing on other systems/implementations.
The worst possible move on this would be to go the GGG route and leave it as is for the comming two years without ever addressing it.

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Miská wrote:

[Removed by Support]

Grow a pair. You countered no arguments yet and all you did was spout lie's in an attempt to undermine my arguments on previous pages which just makes you look sad in my opinion.

Go formulate some actual logically deduced arguments based on the system itself instead of trying your hardest to attack the poster instead of the topic at hand at every single turn.

Peace,

-Boem-

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RagnarokChu wrote:

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Miská wrote:

[Removed by Support]

Dang got them good, people know little else about the "actual" game outside of the most effective tactic available across multiple leagues and the years.

People dislike sextants because they are extremely cancerous to apply every 3 maps and lock you into one place for the rest of the league because literally nothing else comes close to it.

Unlimited shaped strand had other less viable but still good options, while shaped vaults is like 3-5x better than any other alternative. It got to the point where people are wearing full MF gear speed running through t14 shaped vaults/fully sextants earning +30c a run.

Again. This is a shaped vault issue not sextants or shaped maps in particular. I already mentioned multiple times that Vault is really good. But I would prefer other maps to be brought more towards it then for them to destroy Vault and leave us with nothing. This is what GGG does alot lately, and it's gives nothing beneficial, we only lose more.

There are some other options aswell though. There are people doing other stuff then shaped Vault. Sure you make abit less. But I've been generating plenty of currency doing a full atlas or running a different shaped map.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Idunno your claims to how sextants work is drastically different from data across multiple thousands of maps and thousands of other people playing PoE reporting in.

People aren't complaining about sextants if you just randomly throw it on a map :V

What do you mean? Sextant blocking only offers efficiency. Are you saying there is no way to use sextants unless you block?

What I said was sextants are still very profitable even without it.

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Miská wrote:

Again. This is a shaped vault issue not sextants or shaped maps in particular. I already mentioned multiple times that Vault is really good. But I would prefer other maps to be brought more towards it then for them to destroy Vault and leave us with nothing. This is what GGG does alot lately, and it's gives nothing beneficial, we only lose more.

There are some other options aswell though. There are people doing other stuff then shaped Vault. Sure you make abit less. But I've been generating plenty of currency doing a full atlas or running a different shaped map.

Sextants, shaped maps and the map itself are all part of the same system.

If you remove vault people just choose the map down that can be applied 6 sextants instead of 7 and so on.

Shaping map allowed you a massive pool of choice of maps, meaning if all maps aren't balanced well it causes extreme disparity in people who want to play whatever they want and being choosing the meta.

Map layout, destiny, sextants ect are all multipliers in xp and money. Is it proven across data of 1000s of maps in excel worksheets that shaped vaults makes you 30c+ a map unlimited chaining t14s for good item bases to sell. A random person running random maps will get like 3-5c a map and and get random maps that cause them to go up and down. That is 5-10x more effective.

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Miská wrote:

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Idunno your claims to how sextants work is drastically different from data across multiple thousands of maps and thousands of other people playing PoE reporting in.

People aren't complaining about sextants if you just randomly throw it on a map :V

What do you mean? Sextant blocking only offers efficiency. Are you saying there is no way to use sextants unless you block?

What I said was sextants are still very profitable even without it.

This is like saying xyz thing isn't broken if you just don't use it, thus doesn't need to be fixed.

Also if you can sell sextants at 8c a piece how is it "very profitable" without it. The 10% IIQ from a good rolled sextant (mind you have to roll a good one outside of the myriad of bad ones) isn't going to make you 8c over 3 maps.

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Miská wrote:

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Idunno your claims to how sextants work is drastically different from data across multiple thousands of maps and thousands of other people playing PoE reporting in.

People aren't complaining about sextants if you just randomly throw it on a map :V

What do you mean? Sextant blocking only offers efficiency. Are you saying there is no way to use sextants unless you block?

What I said was sextants are still very profitable even without it.

This is impossible, since it's relative to the current best possible scenario.

Sextant relative prices will converge to the price at which the most efficient blockers are buying them, that's how an online driven economy works.
Thus making sextants useless for people not playing the most efficient way.(a net loss even before usage = better of selling them)

Peace,

-Boem-

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Miská wrote:

What do you mean? Sextant blocking only offers efficiency. Are you saying there is no way to use sextants unless you block?

What I said was sextants are still very profitable even without it.

Right now, if I have a yellow sextant, I have two options (my atlas is not shaped, it is full completion):

1) Sell it for a guaranteed 6c.
2) Use it without utilizing sextant blocking.

Option 2 will basically never make me 6c. Def not on average. So every sextant I randomly use right now is quite simply 6c lost.

Unless I am misunderstanding you.

~Myth

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Miská wrote:

[Removed by Support]

Well I'm not exactly a fanboy here but I do admire her I did make an alt account for the sake of defending our dinosaur so here we go.

She is 40//40 every league
She gains an HH every single league and has 10 mirrors every single league
She is one of the most known 820 sharers within the league. Yes shes very cruel here especially to people like you but good reason which is what you're doing right now. Apparently anyone who disagrees with you is a fan boy of hers that's sad dude.

Look it her profile you're telling me that's not experience? That's shes simply carried by her so called crew members? No it's the other way around she carries us. Every market control that she does is all her how we gained an almost unparalleled amountof Exalted orbs was from her and the idea of exploiting others of people paying 100-200 ex per clarity jewel was from her, There's nobody else shes the single sole reason why we're successful in our currency ''group'' Granted it rots because we don't anything to it.

She plays almost 24/7 like a zombie she is perfection even if it's SC we did force her to play HC for once and because of that she now has respect for HC players.

You have no experience VS her not even close.

Trying disrespect her isn't going to get you anywhere as well the community pretty much just rekt you, You refused to even put a good argument you want a fanboy to attack you? Well here I am come at me.

I wrote this in feedback on the sextant subject.



Give it a go, see what you think.

Peace,

-Boem-

The last three leagues more or less narrowed the gap between the average player and the hyper efficient.

Breach: Breaches were everywhere as the name implies. Substantial increase in drops across the board. Lesser breach mobs could drop maps which was the case until a patch in Legacy League.

Legacy: League stones provided similar benefits that sextants did but could be used efficiently regardless of a maps location on the Atlas. Easy access to Breach/Beyond/Bloodline mods on all your maps simultaneously.

Harbinger: Harbinger Orbs, which allowed you to all but ignore the restrictions of the Atlas, warped the end game and set a bad precedent. It's constantly a point of reference in the greater Atlas discussion when it shouldn't be. Seeing as how Annulment Orbs are the only remnants of Harbinger, GGG seems to think the same. Why bother with sextants when you're chaining Beachheads and blowing up Guardians and Shaper ad nauseam?

It's only now that the current league mechanic doesn't act as a sort of counter balance to the negatives of an unshaped Atlas that we're seeing a larger discussion on the impact of sextants.

I hate the sextants. They might as well call this Shaped Vault League because if you don't do that you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Shaping maps is a good idea since you can run your favorite map at higher tier but with the addition of sextant the system became an abomination.