VP was never the problem

I agree with this post,

I hate the fact that you are the bosses bitch as well, just bought my first supporter pack and I'm starting to regret the decision. Imo GGG is doing the same thing that ruined D3, and that is, overhearing the stupid community members that only ask to nerf things they don't play in the first place.

Life leech cannot be instant anymore (without a acuity at least) but REFLECT WILL ALWAYS BE INSTANT.

I'm actually thinking about quiting this game.

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LowBudget780 wrote:

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kshuxxx wrote:

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NessOnett8 wrote:

Can we just appreciate for a moment the irony of a guy saying "All my builds were centered around abusing this one single mechanic, but with that gone, where is the build diversity?"

This is why I'm glad ACTUAL game designers are in charge of balance and not people like you. It doesn't take MUCH of a brain to see that One-shots being common were BECAUSE of VP existing, not the other way around.

Yes, one-shots will always exist. But without VP they will be reserved for select boss fights(unless your build is straight up garbage), and you won't have to worry about the random crit frog or whatever BS you're talking about. So, I guess by defending VP, you're in favor of every frog potentially one-shotting you? Because that is LITERALLY the argument you're making. They can't fix this problem without fixing VP first, or it would go back to trivializing everything like what happened when VP first came out.

Fun fact: before VP existed, this problem you're referring to didn't exist. And the game ran like that for years. Odd that VP would be introduced to solve a problem that DIDN'T EXIST as you're alleging...that seems fairly unlikely.

You must be new to poe , all that you said has no logic , i never stated VP was good , its not good even now , designing a game around leech its bad as you just go full hp nodes as your only defense.
And if u dont understand from the new bs shaped items we will again get power creep ,and no monster damage balance.
This game is slowly becoming more and more of a glass cannon design , kill before you get killed.
The defense mechanics armour , evasion,dodge , block , spell block become more useless with every patch.
To bring back more build into meta they should cut monster damage by 5 times and cut player damage by 100 times , maybe then meta will change.

You've been playing since 2011 and haven't even killed Shaper, lol quite the balance expert we have here.

GOT HIM

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GOT HIM

Almost.

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Sa_Re wrote:

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Frankenberry wrote:

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I honestly don't even care. Pretty much every build of mine is now dead.

CWC Tank = DEAD

Wild Strike Raider = DEAD

Molten Strike Boss Killer = DEAD

Scourge Flurry Scion = DEAD

Kitava's Frostbolt Assassin = DEAD

And the list goes on. I won't be pigeonholed into Summoner or Slayer. Fuck this.

I said it before and I keep my word. This is where I stop all support and playing.

Have fun playing logout mini-games sprinkled with one-shots on top.

Hahaha :D This is perfect for the "the sky is falling thread" xD xD xD

Those complains are legit though... if you can only create viable builds with VP.

But then again... they aren't legit since VP is not mandatory to make attack based builds viable. It's really not a problem to survive without VP - even with high damage attack based builds.

People seem to forget some us killed Uber Atziri in a time before VP was the go-to option. If people could kill Uber Atziri without instant leech on attack based characters without Ascendancy classes then I am sure people can clear Uber Atziri / Shaper / Elder with Ascendancy classes, higher damage and better reflect mitigation.

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I honestly don't even care. Pretty much every build of mine is now dead.

CWC Tank = DEAD

Wild Strike Raider = DEAD

Molten Strike Boss Killer = DEAD

Scourge Flurry Scion = DEAD

Kitava's Frostbolt Assassin = DEAD

And the list goes on. I won't be pigeonholed into Summoner or Slayer. Fuck this.

I said it before and I keep my word. This is where I stop all support and playing.

Have fun playing logout mini-games sprinkled with one-shots on top.

put it this way, I never play slayer or summoner, I never take vp and I could count on 1 hand the amount of times Ive been 1 shot in maps in the last 9000 hours Ive played this game, I never log out.

Youve just been building around 1 mechanic and you dont have experience making the other defenses work if you cant see how to do things without vp. They do actually work and everything you are doing can still be done, you just need to change maybe 5 to 10 passives on your tree, a couple of gems and the way you gear your characters.





those are the weapons I use on standard, I have such a variety and quantity of builds that all of these things are usually in use on at least 1 character, and I play in every temp league. Do you think Id be able to have those items if nothing I did worked? Do you think Id have those items and essentially never use vp on life builds if vp was so superior and necessary that nothing else could compete with it?

the way I see vp is that you have this tank the shaper beam moment, and if you want that then vp is ur thing. Outside of that one momenet of that encounter, when you look at day to day mapping what vp is doing for you survivability wise it can be equaled by other mechanics, to the point where not having life regen is too annoying for me to bother with vp, I literally dont see the inconvenience of not having regen being outweighed by the benefits of vp. Thats why Id only ever use it on non zealots ci builds before the change. If my serious mapping characters were dying and vp would solve it dont you think I would take it? Do you think after 12k+ hours of playing poe Im not aware what vp does, that Im just ignorant of what happens when you take that node?





I have these gloves, not currently using them on any build. do you think I dont know what happens when you put on these gloves? Of course they up your survivability on crit builds. But Im using these other gloves...



currently on crit builds. Why? none of those builds have vp, and I can have instant leech on any of them just by using atziri gloves instead, why am I not doing it?

Because I just dont need instant leech, Im not gonna give up the attack speed, accuracy, resist, whatever it is I have on those rares for instant leech because if Im literally never dying to something instant leech would protect against why would I give up anything beneficial to have it?

Theres an entire world of ways to build characters out there, people havent needed to bother with it because this one thing, vp, has worked for them and they have the same mindset I have, why would I give up this beneficial thing for these other beneficial things if I dont need them? I have this node so I dont need this other thing or that other thing. But trust me, the other things are there and if you dont have vp you just do those other things, you might not currently understand them the same way people who only played ci and never played life before the last change thought the game was impossible with life characters. They have ci, why would they give that up for life when ci is working for everything? Well they gutted it and guess what? Everyones playing life now and its fine, within days everyone was on a life build clearing maps and they had completely forgotten the idea that it was impossible to make life work.



they said they were reworking reflect, and then they didnt do it. I think its not unreasonable to assume that they held back the reflect rework to drop at the same time as the vp change. Only time Ive ever felt forced to use either vp or those gloves, that the survivability gained by them was actually neccesary, that it would mean I died less was in cases of ele reflect when playing high damage crit selfcast lightning spells because of that freaky top end damage potential.

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Frankenberry wrote:

ble. It's really not a problem to survive without VP - even with high damage attack based builds.

People seem to forget some us killed Uber Atziri in a time before VP was the go-to option. If people could kill Uber Atziri without instant leech on attack based characters without Ascendancy classes then I am sure people can clear Uber Atziri / Shaper / Elder with Ascendancy classes, higher damage and better reflect mitigation.

it's not really shaper, and atziri that are the main problems without VP (well maybe the trio in atziri)

it's high tier maps with double beyond and insane mods rolled on it, where every single monster chunks you for over half your hp. Or some guardians like phoenix where if you get hit by once by one of the small birds 80% of your health is gone.

you dont really need VP for shaper because you can literally dodge anything he does.
But I'm scared the whole "jump into a huge pack of monsters and decimate them" thing will be a thing of the past for most builds.


unless ofc you go all out on defense but then you wont really be decimating them anymore will you?

trust me I'd be glad to be wrong, but i dont really see how we'Ll be able to outheal the insane damage there currently is if all you have for tools are a WM blasphemy and maybe an atziri flask

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shaunika90 wrote:

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Frankenberry wrote:

ble. It's really not a problem to survive without VP - even with high damage attack based builds.

People seem to forget some us killed Uber Atziri in a time before VP was the go-to option. If people could kill Uber Atziri without instant leech on attack based characters without Ascendancy classes then I am sure people can clear Uber Atziri / Shaper / Elder with Ascendancy classes, higher damage and better reflect mitigation.

it's not really shaper, and atziri that are the main problems without VP (well maybe the trio in atziri)

it's high tier maps with double beyond and insane mods rolled on it, where every single monster chunks you for over half your hp. Or some guardians like phoenix where if you get hit by once by one of the small birds 80% of your health is gone.

you dont really need VP for shaper because you can literally dodge anything he does.
But I'm scared the whole "jump into a huge pack of monsters and decimate them" thing will be a thing of the past for most builds.


unless ofc you go all out on defense but then you wont really be decimating them anymore will you?

trust me I'd be glad to be wrong, but i dont really see how we'Ll be able to outheal the insane damage there currently is if all you have for tools are a WM blasphemy and maybe an atziri flask

Thing is, you could cut the damage of most builds nowadays in half four times over and still decimate maps T15+. Try it.

I have 70-120k tooktip, 228k PoB dps, no VP, no mirrored gear (35c weapons when I bought them), BotR.


I can solo atziri (not uber, never shaper'd either), do yellow t13-15s, I LOVE jumping into large packs, especially to use Vaal Cyclone.
Mob wise, only thing that kills me is Bearers and freeze while VC'ing.
I can take on reflect yellows by myself or play it safe with my totem. and flamebloods do not one-shot me (like 70%).
My main defense is 1800 life/sec non-VP leech.

character: https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/tidbit/characters?characterName=Yasureno_Whynot

VP isn't needed. If you want the expensive 'pro' version of what I said (in case you want to bring up "you never did shaper stfu pleb") look at Snorkle_uk's post.

VP wasn't a problem in itself, VP was a result of the (insane) damage spikes that CAN occur. A lot of builds need VP to be "viable".

When the best defense in the game (VP) is a mechanic that scales off of your offense (DPS), there's something wrong with the balance. I'm VERY eager to see the patch notes, as the game just became a lot harder and slower for A LOT of builds.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for nerfing VP, but doing it without touching defenses and/or damage spikes is a dick move.

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tidbit wrote:

VP isn't needed.

Don't use your ONE build to define a mechanic i PoE. Just because it's not needed for some builds, doesn't mean it's not needed as a mechanic.

OP: on the contrary instant leech ALWAYS was the problem. It trivializes content and makes for a super boring playstyle since you simply ignore all of the skills of all mobs. It had to go and I am surprised at how long it took for GGG to actually realize this. Now all GGG has to do is to remove the other sources of instant leech and add a logout timer. Then they can reduce the spikiness of the damage and still keep the game challanging.