PoE Hedge Fund - OFFICIAL NO-GO AS PER GGG

So the hudge fund turned to be a yuge disappointment. No surprise there as ggg will always nerf fun stuff. "I made an investment for the fund. I bought a currency tab" got me good.

As per ggg's response it's the usual "We do our job; even though we don't want to. We have shady rules and are too lazy to enforce them".

Funny thing is people less transparent then you make a living off trading (flipping/scamming) in poe and ggg does not bat an eyelash (and i'm not refering to those wannabes in chat selling ex for $ which always seem to be imune to the ban hammer). But then again if you play poe like a pirate by the time ggg makes you walk the planck you'll end up eating salmon everyday instead of sleeping with the fish.

You tried... so did a lot of real life hedge fund managers. At least you're not on some Caribbean Island somewhere drinking Mai Tai's on your investors' dime. Should have listed this one in my original list of potential problems, but I really didn't think that GGG would give a darn.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

You tried... so did a lot of real life hedge fund managers. At least you're not on some Caribbean Island somewhere drinking Mai Tai's on your investors' dime. Should have listed this one in my original list of potential problems, but I really didn't think that GGG would give a darn.

Yeah, I really didn't either. Contacting them was almost an afterthought. Just seemed like the right thing to do. I guess it was, but not in the way I would have liked.

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magicstop wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

You tried... so did a lot of real life hedge fund managers. At least you're not on some Caribbean Island somewhere drinking Mai Tai's on your investors' dime. Should have listed this one in my original list of potential problems, but I really didn't think that GGG would give a darn.

Yeah, I really didn't either. Contacting them was almost an afterthought. Just seemed like the right thing to do. I guess it was, but not in the way I would have liked.

I reckon that the response would have been different in the old days. One could say that they had a more attitude towards potential abuse. Hell, I'd argue they coded it directly into the game with how the bandit quest pvp interacts with hardcore, and short allocation being the intended drop distribution. I don't enjoy the economics of PoE, but I think that if you're going to simulate real-world trading and bartering, allowing hedge-funds and whatever chaos they might bring would be much more interesting. I mean, wouldn't it be great to have PoE-equivalents of the grand tales of deception and betrayal in EVE?

business school has taught me that when one gets big, one must heed CYA

CYA stands for cover your donkey

i find it super cool that you're granting default 50% ROI on your initial investors, though. real nice guy

Roll another account and restart it on reddit. Problem solved. I mean really with the amount of shit that goes on in this game's economy you think they are going to notice a couple guys trading 50c to each other? Half the currency traders I trade with are straight up bots as is, dealing in tons of currency per day.

I can tell you they dont catch a lot of people for a lot of shit, so I wouldn't worry too much about handing investors 8c a week in dividends. I mean if people can get away with just handing off 100s of exalts a time for nothing to complete strangers, what are the odds you get busted for 8c?

The part where you messed up? Being an honest player.

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鬼殺し wrote:

I've been watching this quietly, but now I want to speak up a little.

I don't know why you even asked them. When they're unable to manage blatant bullshit like price fixing on a third party site that should have been shut down ages ago, it seems a little fucking hypocritical to then shut down a 100% player managed and player run investment fund. If they're not going to play nanny state with something as all-pervasive as poe.trade, suddenly shutting down a much smaller, much more openly run investment scheme is like a cop writing jaywalking tickets instead of pulling over speeding drivers.

It wasn't their business. It was yours. You weren't breaking any rules -- no RMT, no shady activity. At most, you were very openly, very clearly asking people to trust you with a relatively small amount of their wealth -- or so I'd like to believe. You didn't seem to be interested in fleecing some bum like me of his only 50c (...I don't even have 50c in Harbinger, lol).

IF anything, I'd think GGG would be proud and amused that their virtual market, their little antfarm, has produced genuine attempts at hedge funds and investment schemes. That's interesting!

But then we come to the ugly side of things: if something went wrong, it would be reported to Support and they'd look like the bad guys for not being able to do anything about it. As they can't do anything about anything else that goes on complicitly strictly between players. The word 'scam' would be thrown around and they'be left holding the bag of shit. Easier just to shut it down now.

...I'd like to point out, however, they didn't comment on or close this thread and it's been very visible for a while now. I appreciate you trying to be the good guy and asking them, but their lack of activity was, to me, implicit permission.

I think you turned yourself in for a misdemeanor, at worst, and they had no choice but to process it. You forced their blind eye to glare at a potential issue. Noble...but in this case, not necessary.

Which is sort of ironic given how dodgy a lot of real-life hedge fund managers turn out to be.

So in other words, I pulled a Ned Stark . . . heh.

In truth, it was less honor, and more in the interest of transparency. I felt the need to publicly and pointedly make sure this venture was "on the up-and-up" because I needed to eliminate as many risk factors as possible. The last thing I wanted was for my account to get banned, all my hard work from the past 4 years to go poof, and for a bunch of investors to loose their currency. I also needed to take strong steps towards fostering transparency and confidence so that community members would feel empowered to participate.

Unfortunately, as you mention, in forcing the point, GGG had to make a conservative call. It does suck that they made that call, given that I've tried to be as forthcoming and straightforward as possible. But I understand that they're probably less worried about me and more about potential crooks.

I, too, was a blind investor w/ GGG. I was a closed beta supporter. Glad I did, but as with all EA-type ventures, you never know if you'll end up with a product or not. That's why I'm so appreciative of the initial investors who decided to give this a shot. They had no guarantees other than my word, yet they went for it anyway. That's awesome.

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adghar wrote:

business school has taught me that when one gets big, one must heed CYA

CYA stands for cover your donkey

i find it super cool that you're granting default 50% ROI on your initial investors, though. real nice guy

CYA is exactly it. Better to get shutdown early than mid-swing. GGG is saying the same thing, I'd imagine, but the end result is different, lol.

And I feel like these investors deserve a return. They stuck their necks out there. Even though it's coming out of my wallet, I think it's the right thing to do. At least they'll get something for their trouble :)

Who knows, maybe GGG will change their mind about this somewhere down the road. I do feel like it's overly paternalistic, and maybe that will evolve in the future. Then again, probably not, lol.

Disclaimer: Below quote is only a partial extract. Also I bolded one part.

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鬼殺し wrote:

...they're unable to manage blatant bullshit like price fixing on a third party site that should have been shut down ages ago, it seems a little fucking hypocritical to then shut down a 100% player managed and player run investment fund. If they're not going to play nanny state with something as all-pervasive as poe.trade, suddenly shutting down a much smaller, much more openly run investment scheme is like a cop writing jaywalking tickets instead of pulling over speeding drivers.

It wasn't their business. It was yours. You weren't breaking any rules -- no RMT, no shady activity. At most, you were very openly, very clearly asking people to trust you with a relatively small amount of their wealth -- or so I'd like to believe. You didn't seem to be interested in fleecing some bum like me of his only 50c (...I don't even have 50c in Harbinger, lol).

For me, POE's been a goner for 1.5 years now, meaning am freeloading hard but support is and will stay nil. Those words will easily attract white-knights, so be it.

1. As pointed out above, it's not against the TOS, and if it was you'd be playing a game developed and managed by na*zis. Perhaps you don't like that last word, it is correct and fitting though.

2. We're talking about trading here, the only reason GGG is doing zero about it is that they're milking phD research on human behaviour in online environments (e.g. stop progress to artificially increase time spent to then statistically increase compulsive buyer behaviour and thus earnings). POE would not remotely be at the level it is without POE trade, and XBOX1 bullshit would not cut it for PC gamers that's for sure.

3. It's true that it seems to simulate a stock market. The only problem is that if it was real people would get jailed left and right for insider trading and other shit. POE.TRADE is currently only a marketing tool helping people to communicate more efficiently.

That company is getting more and more ridicilous. Why?

Remember that guy who went balistic on Reddit because is account was banned as people in his guild cheated or something? He got unbanned BUT he had to fight, hard, for it. They had no proof whatsoever of misconduct on his part. It was guilty without trial. Remember that Naz.. word I used?

Then we have the bullshit (once again documented) about people being forbidden to use a Popsicle stick to trigger all 5 pots at once. Fucking please... How goddamn moronic are oyu to even try to forbid someone to use MECHANICAL means to use their keyboards or mouses. Well it worked the plebs listened cause the non-plebs know full well they can't do shit about it. sue them even directly in NZ, any judge will crush them hard.

And now someone has been forbidden (taking his word for it, haven't seen direct proof but considering the above heee?) to do something not against their own TOS or anything. AND as fake china boy pointed out, regarding a CRITICAL part of their game they've been shitting on for the last 4 years. OoooKkkkkkk!!!

It's all ok for them though the fifteen million merits boyz are here to play dumb and feed that crapfest tons of cash.

Edit: crap grammar and such, still plenty of it!

Edit 2: Being an investor IRL, I appreciate the need for ROCI. Perhaps I shouldn't complain as I need a relevant number of people to behave like dumb factory workers.

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Mischief67 wrote:

Disclaimer: Below quote is only a partial extract. Also I bolded one part.

"

鬼殺し wrote:

...they're unable to manage blatant bullshit like price fixing on a third party site that should have been shut down ages ago, it seems a little fucking hypocritical to then shut down a 100% player managed and player run investment fund. If they're not going to play nanny state with something as all-pervasive as poe.trade, suddenly shutting down a much smaller, much more openly run investment scheme is like a cop writing jaywalking tickets instead of pulling over speeding drivers.

It wasn't their business. It was yours. You weren't breaking any rules -- no RMT, no shady activity. At most, you were very openly, very clearly asking people to trust you with a relatively small amount of their wealth -- or so I'd like to believe. You didn't seem to be interested in fleecing some bum like me of his only 50c (...I don't even have 50c in Harbinger, lol).

For me, POE's been a goner for 1.5 years now, meaning am freeloading hard but support is and will stay nil. Those words will easily attract white-knights, so be it.

1. As pointed out above, it's not against the TOS, and if it was you'd be playing a game developed and managed by na*zis. Perhaps you don't like that last word, it is correct and fitting though.

2. We're talking about trading here, the only reason GGG is doing zero about it is that they're milking phD research on human behaviour in online environments (e.g. stop progress to artificially increase time spent to then statistically increase compulsive buyer behaviour and thus earnings). POE would not remotely be at the level it is without POE trade, and XBOX1 bullshit would not cut it for PC gamers that's for sure.

3. It's true that it seems to simulate a stock market. The only problem is that if it was real people would get jailed left and right for insider trading and other shit. POE.TRADE is currently only a marketing tool helping people to communicate more efficiently.

That company is getting more and more ridicilous. Why?

Remember that guy who went balistic on Reddit because is account was banned as people in his guild cheated or something? He got unbanned BUT he had to fight, hard, for it. They had no proof whatsoever of misconduct on his part. It was guilty without trial. Remember that Naz.. word I used?

Then we have the bullshit (once again documented) about people being forbidden to use a Popsicle stick to trigger all 5 pots at once. Fucking please... How goddamn moronic are oyu to even try to forbid someone to use MECHANICAL means to use their keyboards or mouses. Well it worked the plebs listened cause the non-plebs know full well they can't do shit about it. sue them even directly in NZ, any judge will crush them hard.

And now someone has been forbidden (taking his word for it, haven't seen direct proof but considering the above heee?) to do something not against their own TOS or anything. AND as fake china boy pointed out, regarding a CRITICAL part of their game they've been shitting on for the last 4 years. OoooKkkkkkk!!!

It's all ok for them though the fifteen million merits boyz are here to play dumb and feed that crapfest tons of cash.

Edit: crap grammar and such, still plenty of it!

I like you. Your good people.

"

Destructodave wrote:

Roll another account and restart it on reddit. Problem solved. I mean really with the amount of shit that goes on in this game's economy you think they are going to notice a couple guys trading 50c to each other? Half the currency traders I trade with are straight up bots as is, dealing in tons of currency per day.

I can tell you they dont catch a lot of people for a lot of shit, so I wouldn't worry too much about handing investors 8c a week in dividends. I mean if people can get away with just handing off 100s of exalts a time for nothing to complete strangers, what are the odds you get busted for 8c?

The part where you messed up? Being an honest player.

I just can't :\ I can't do that in good faith when dealing with other people's money. Believe, part of me wants to. Part of me wants to let this thread die a quick death and then to silently revisit this pursuit later.

But I'm not going to. Risking my own money is one thing. Risking other people's is another.

It's OK, though. It's not like I can't continue to trade for my own benefit. As I said in the beginning, I don't need the money. I'm not losing out on my only option, here. Just losing out on a cool opportunity to do something I'm good at for other people.