1 shot 95% of game content

"

charley222 wrote:

btw i just share my opinion so no need to get emotional if you are disagree ,

here 1 exemple no need do anything any need to use bash or casting something except running and burn everything in 1 sec , i know already you will be disagree i guess maybe because you use and like free stuff , but in the end of the day 1 type of damage optimise ,nothing versatile here 1 sec kill i guess 100% what i`m saying before , i guess good optimise build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0MM89V8KMU this game is full of this and is sad 95% of the game offer any type of challenge in my opinion . exemple if you are fire build and fight fire monster the monster suppose to have higher resit for the same element .my 2 cent peace

Of course I am going to disagree with nonsense. Why wouldn't I?

You clearly do not know what you are talking about, that and you have a way of blowing people's responses out of proportion, notably mine so as to dub it 'getting emotional'. I speak facts; you do not. You're all about opinion trying to hypostatize facts that are not fact, meaning you're assuming the reality of something that isn't what it really is, that which is trying to say PoE is not 'versatile' or that 1-shotting everything is a problem (well yea, if you build your character powerful enough, the game is going to seem a little 'hack-and-slashy'. Duh!)

Look, even versatile builds that are not the meta at all can 1-shot things. So what? Like I said, if you play a game long enough, you're going to start 1-shotting things, anyway, and IF you do not want to 1-shot things, then tone down your character's power (so easy!)

Now, I would agree with your OP regarding 1-shotting things IF the toughest bosses were 1-shottable, yet that is not the case. You make no sense by trying to suggest GGG should make even regular monster encounters (known as 'fodder') almost as tough as actual bosses, which seems to be what you want, and that is ridiculous and not fun at all. The gameplay at that point (in any ARPG) would become too sluggish to hold anybody's attention.

The whole idea of an Action Role-Playing Game (to spell it out for you) is to go through legions of 'fodder' with only a few tough mobs along the way until you finally get to the hard(est) boss(es), and if you're not understanding that, then this game is either not for you or you should consider reevaluating your definition of an ARPG and the type of gameplay it entails.

The problem is not with the game but with how you play. Compared to you, I play very versatile builds whereas you do not, obviously, and that was my initial point in my other comment.

you say ( The problem is not with the game but with how you play. Compared to you, I play very versatile builds whereas you do not, obviously, and that was my initial point in my other comment) let me answer you in my opinion where you are all wrong , is not about how you play but about how the game designer let you play , you say ( I play very versatile builds whereas you do not) let me answer you, how do you know :) what i play lol , you play versatile right and is got no point to use 2 type of damage because 1 type of dps make the job why to be versatile ??? right now there no need or real benefits to be versatile, already the video i post show my point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0MM89V8KMU BTW tell me what is got so versatile in this build Oo running ? , the day the game will have mechanic to slow you down or block for using only 1 type of dps that will be useful tobe versatile and will cost you some investment in your build and 1 shot 1 skill op build will be reduce now is not the case because 1 attack make the job done so your point in my opinion is pointless sure the GOLD SELLER and item seller will dont like this because this will show down real life money framing gl peace

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charley222 wrote:

Let me answer you in my opinion where you are all wrong , is not about how you play but about how the game designer let you play.

It IS about how you or somebody else chooses to play, and that is either 1. You play no-brainer meta builds everybody and their grandmother plays or 2. Simply do not conform with builds like the one you linked in the video by not playing it and make up your own build(s)! It is that simple. Get creative and turn something non-viable into viable and see how far you get.

Furthermore, quote me where I said builds like in the video you showed do not exist. Quote me where I said builds like in the video you linked are not cheap 1-shotting builds. You cannot do it because I never such said things. I even admitted in my comment on the 4th page, and I quote, "and yes, those builds exist, YET that does not mean you have to play that way. There are other things you can do than what the metas would have you believe to be more versatile." end of quote

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charley222 wrote:

now there no need or real benefits to be versatile, already the video i post show my point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0MM89V8KMU BTW tell me what is got so versatile in this build Oo running?

That's the thing, the build you linked is not versatile, silly. I never said it WAS! My point is just because you see somebody else run these builds (or the general playerbase) does not mean you cannot use a build that is actually versatile and works!

The video you linked does not prove anything except people in general doing what people DO, and that is 'exploiting' mechanics. So what?! Even the developers themselves do not know what the end results are going to be with their newly-released Skill Gems, Support Gems, etc. until they are released and played around with by thousands of players (much more people than a small group of developers). Even Skills that have been out for ages are still finding niche and/or new uses.

Just because the game designers give players the tools to do what they want does not mean YOU, in particular, have to conform by playing no-brainer, overpowered builds. Not only that, it is not the developers telling players how to play and what build(s) to use; it is the players choosing how they want to play with the tools they are given, and that is how it should be!

And the reason I accused YOU of playing such builds because, in your OP, you cry, and I quote, "in my opinion overall if you have knowledge on the game 95% of the game content become very to easy, and i dont really like this because 1. is not really challenging 2. You just have to optimise your build for 1 type of damage and attack and dont need to be versatile 3. i`m bit sad for game designer working hard to creating content map nice monster spell, etc. but everything die in less of 1/4 of sec and the map is about 2 to 4 min." end of quote

To break it down for you, to 1. I say YOU, in particular, cannot expect the developers to 'punish' players for being smart by exploiting mechanics! And even if GGG did punish smart players who exploit mechanics, players are still going to find something else to exploit, as with everything, even in Life, so get over it! (Am I right or wrong?)

To 2. I say just because you do not have to be versatile when 1 shot 1 kill builds exist does not mean you cannot be versatile and make a good viable build to make it to end-game (at least tier 11-12 Red Maps, minimal).

To 3. even IF GGG nerfed the game all to Hell (arguably, more than it already has been with ES builds, poison damage, etc.), players are still going to find something to exploit, always! The sooner you realize that, the better off you're going to be. The developers can only nerf/balance a game so much until they come to writing on a brick wall that says, "Hey, stop, because over-nerfing / over-balancing a game is not good, either! It may drive players away!"

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charley222 wrote:

the day the game will have mechanic to slow you down or block for using only 1 type of dps that will be useful tobe versatile and will cost you some investment in your build and 1 shot 1 skill op build will be reduce now is not the case because 1 attack make the job done so your point in my opinion is pointless sure the GOLD SELLER and item seller will dont like this because this will show down real life money framing gl peace

Are you trying to insinuate that just because I am arguing against your opinion I am a Gold Seller as a result of that? If so, you are wrong.

Conclusively, what you FAIL to understand throughout this entire discussion is I AM on your side regarding OP 1-shot builds, yet my general point to you is get over it and just run your own builds that do not conform with the metas! How hard is that to understand?

Peace.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

The whole idea of an Action Role-Playing Game (to spell it out for you) is to go through legions of 'fodder' with only a few tough mobs along the way until you finally get to the hard(est) boss(es), and if you're not understanding that, then this game is either not for you or you should consider reevaluating your definition of an ARPG and the type of gameplay it entails.

Yes, most ARPG's are about that, kill tons of "cannon fodder" (or just run through it, if game allows), find a really challenging guy (aka "boss"), kill him and get the rewards.

But PoE is kinda different. If you want to get good experience gain, you MUST kill "cannon fodder", and do it very quickly. For some wierd reason, killing really tough guys (bosses) doesnt yield experience at all. And about loot - only few bosses indeed drop valuable loot - like Guardians, Shaper, Atziri, Izaro... All that crapload of bosses in T1-T15 maps DONT DROP ANYTHING GOOD. You will get far better drops from "cannon fodder" in the map.

So, your arguments are pure bullshit. PoE is balanced so killing trash mobs is an IMPORTANT and REWARDING part of the game, THAT'S WHY players should actually INTERACT with them. Or, make all those trash mobs drop almost no loot and no experience and shift all those rewards to bosses, then i'll be fine to oneshot them one screen wide and away.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

Yes, most ARPG's are about that, kill tons of "cannon fodder" (or just run through it, if game allows), find a really challenging guy (aka "boss"), kill him and get the rewards.

But PoE is kinda different. If you want to get good experience gain, you MUST kill "cannon fodder", and do it very quickly. For some wierd reason, killing really tough guys (bosses) doesnt yield experience at all. And about loot - only few bosses indeed drop valuable loot - like Guardians, Shaper, Atziri, Izaro... All that crapload of bosses in T1-T15 maps DONT DROP ANYTHING GOOD. You will get far better drops from "cannon fodder" in the map.

So, your arguments are pure bullshit. PoE is balanced so killing trash mobs is an IMPORTANT and REWARDING part of the game, THAT'S WHY players should actually INTERACT with them. Or, make all those trash mobs drop almost no loot and no experience and shift all those rewards to bosses, then i'll be fine to oneshot them one screen wide and away.

Your counterargument is bullshit. You're not speaking to a complete nooblet here, yet your misplaced assumptions thus far make it seem so.

Here is a quick NEWS FLASH for you: Killing anything (T-12+ Red Map bosses OR 'fodder') can result in very good drops, exception to the rule of very few drops in the game that are specific to defeating certain bosses! Otherwise, roughly 98% of other items can come from anything during end-game because the game is RNG-based. Therefore, that makes the game 'unpredictably rewarding' no matter what you kill, and better that than 'predictable rewards' coming only from boss battles alone.

My point is there have been times where I have killed thousands of fodder where drops were complete shit whereas killing bosses yielded great drops, and vice versa. Just because you (or anybody else in particular) have a shitty loot gameplay experience does not mean everybody does!

Far as difficulty goes (the initial point I made you quoted from me), PoE is not different than other ARPG games because the fodder and all the in-between mobs are weaker than map bosses (how they are supposed to be!), YET the OP seems to suggest it should not be like that where even the fodder and all the in-between mobs are powerful like actual map bosses. It does not work that way in ARPGs, and PoE's developers understand that because it would make progression sluggish instead of fluid.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

My point is there have been times where I have killed thousands of fodder where drops were complete shit whereas killing bosses yielded great drops, and vice versa. Just because you (or anybody else in particular) have a shitty loot gameplay experience does not mean everybody does!

If you'll take the average statistics, you'll see, that trash mobs in maps drop at least several times better loot, than boss (except bosses with great targeted drops). And boss yields like 1/100 of total experience in the map.
If common mobs are more rewarding than boss (and they are!), they shouldnt be mere "cannon fodder".

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

My point is there have been times where I have killed thousands of fodder where drops were complete shit whereas killing bosses yielded great drops, and vice versa. Just because you (or anybody else in particular) have a shitty loot gameplay experience does not mean everybody does!

If you'll take the average statistics, you'll see, that trash mobs in maps drop at least several times better loot, than boss (except bosses with great targeted drops). And boss yields like 1/100 of total experience in the map.
If common mobs are more rewarding than boss (and they are!), they shouldnt be mere "cannon fodder".

The real reason WHY PoE's developers chose loot throughout the game to be 'unpredictably rewarding' vs. 'predictably rewarding' from map bosses and champions alone:

Trash mobs only seem to be more rewarding than actual map bosses or champions because there are MORE of them, just like there are more car accidents than plane accidents because there are MORE cars (else there would be more plane accidents with overpopulated airways). It is that simple. Think of trash mobs like lottery tickets; the more you kill, the more loot you receive. Otherwise, if a map had 498 champions, 1 trash monster, and 1 map boss, the drops would be better from the champions and the map boss.

Does admitting the above stated cave in to your counterargument? No. That is because the chance to receive good items from a single map boss or a single champion is not equal to the chance to receive good items from a single trash monster. I do not have the game code in front of me to give exact numeric values, but I can certainly tell you killing a single map boss or a single champion would be the equivalent of killing roughly 20-40 trash monsters (with maybe a 0.1-0.2% chance to get good items per trash monster).

Otherwise, if the above stated is argued and proved to be false, you then agree the chance to receive good items from a map boss (or a champion) is equal to the chance to receive good items from a single trash monster, and therefore, if a map were to have 498 champions, 1 trash monster, and 1 map boss, it would not make any difference (which would only prove my initial point even further, yet I know damn well map bosses and champions do yield a higher chance to receive good items).

NOW, the reason why GGG chose loot to be 'unpredictably rewarding' no matter what you kill is because they do not want players frequenting any one particular map of the game too often so as to become repetitive, because they want players to explore other parts of the game. It is that simple.

Conclusively, I hope anybody reading this has a better understanding why loot drops are the way they are, and why the difficulty of the game is the way it is. Do not agree with my FACTS? Then I am all ears to hear somebody else in the crowd out there write up better explanations and answers.

Don't forget a lot of people like deleting things, i'll skip anything my char can't delete while mapping and farm the endgame encounters if i feel like a fight. Bouncing off a map boss that has 0 chance of killing you for 20 seconds has never been fun for me and if the boss can, dodging makes it even slower.

Until map bosses start paying us for the time wasted, i'm going to pretend they aren't in the game. At least pre 3.0 you wasted a small amount of time for 0 loot and exp while in the risky part of the map.

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DrDraids wrote:

Don't forget a lot of people like deleting things, i'll skip anything my char can't delete while mapping and farm the endgame encounters if i feel like a fight. Bouncing off a map boss that has 0 chance of killing you for 20 seconds has never been fun for me and if the boss can, dodging makes it even slower.

Until map bosses start paying us for the time wasted, i'm going to pretend they aren't in the game. At least pre 3.0 you wasted a small amount of time for 0 loot and exp while in the risky part of the map.

As stated in my reply to MortalKombat3 above your comment, GGG's developers are never going to make map boss and champions more rewarding than killing, say, 500+ fodder for reason being they want loot to be 'unpredictably rewarding' across the board and not 'predictably rewarding' from map bosses and champions alone. That is not to say a single map boss or a single champion does not yield better drops than a single trash monster or a single group of trash mobs (consult the numbers in my other comment above yours).

GGG's developers chose loot to be that way throughout the game (no matter what you kill roughly 98% of the time) because they do not want players frequenting any one particular map too often so as to become repetitive. They want players to explore other maps in the game, too. It is that simple.

HeavyMetalGear you say ( YET the OP seems to suggest it should not be like that where even the fodder and all the in-between mobs are powerful like actual map bosses. It does not work that way in ARPGs, and PoE's developers understand that because it would make progression sluggish instead of fluid.)

i think you exaggerate ) i never ask to make white mobs powerful like actual map bosses lol but asking they have highter resistance vs some type of dps
BTW you say (It does not work that way in ARPGs) are you really sure about this oO :) btw here 1 little exemple and have many other arpg having this is just the basic to have some good monster http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/act5g-vampire.shtml btw poe have this but the monster resistance are just very to low for the dps this game have now , so if monster have high resistance is very useful to be versatile