Thin line between Clever use of game Mechanis and Exploit. Monstrous Treasure shenanigans.

"

inuke wrote:

The only thing that gets me every time i see a company banning players for doing something that the company itself allow them to.

It's no one's fault but the coders that work at said company.

Every time a company bans someone for expoipting their game in ANYWAY (even duping) is a negative score for that company that i give.

Its really sad to me what GGG did to the players that exploited those legacy stones and now this..

That's why

Their servers, their rules.

This was clearly an exploit. Doing certain actions based on loading times is not what I would call a game mechanic.

The izaro thing on the other hand is, totems having faster reaction time than humans.

When it comes to cheating and exploits, I have so far always agreed with GGG. They always do what to me seems the most reasonable. If you now think I'm a shill, look through my post history (i hate lab and the trade 'system')

Clever use of game mechanics.

- get cold resist for merveil
- cap resistances
- use whirling blades to escape dominus slam
- strand shaping
- disconnecting a map on instance creation to forfeit prophecy's

Find the odd one of the bunch.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

SunL4D2 wrote:

You need to prove that things tat was working liek that for years are for some reason now unintentional.

Answer this: Did YOU actually think that the reduced loading time for a map when proc'ing the prophecy is intentional? Did YOU think that GGG on purpose reduced the loading time for people to discover. A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

Nope, a simple yes or no will not suffice here, because there are lots of bugfixes and balance changes in each patch, so obviously not all side effects were foreseen by the devs. Yet "exploiting" most of them is not a bannable offense. Examples: Double dipping, crazy high life values on Kaom's, OP unstable mirror arrow minions, etc...

There is no absolute truth here, just opinions. Of course GGG's opinion matters the most, but the others are valid, too.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

SunL4D2 wrote:

You need to prove that things tat was working liek that for years are for some reason now unintentional.

Answer this: Did YOU actually think that the reduced loading time for a map when proc'ing the prophecy is intentional? Did YOU think that GGG on purpose reduced the loading time for people to discover. A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

QFFT.

You guys are seriously stretching the threads of the definition of exploitation.

Someone watching load times to determine zone content KNOWS this is not in the normal boundaries of the game. Exploit.

The Animate Guardian issue where those damage gems were stackable (Sun, you obsessed over that issue as well, and even started buying up the gear for it), was exploitable, but within the existing mechanics of the GAME - they put in a stack limit and done.

Finding a way to open a map with a stone effect but maintain full charges on that stone - no one doing that was thinking that was not an exploit.

Double-dipping - exploitable, and being phased out of the game eventually.

And, please, stop this fear-mongering over "OH NOES GGG CAN BAN ME FOR WHATEVER THEY WANT WHENEVER THEY WANT - DICTATORSHITLERFUCKTHISGAME". It is imbecilic and juvenile.

This is like the famous legal definition of pornography of 'you know it when you see it'. I'm sure we could conjure up a few examples of exploits that genuinely do blur the lines between clever use of mechanics and exploit, but 99% of examples would get 99% agreement if you polled the community. This is one of those non blurry ones.

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SisterBlister wrote:

Nope, a simple yes or no will not suffice here, because there are lots of bugfixes and balance changes in each patch, so obviously not all side effects were foreseen by the devs. Yet "exploiting" most of them is not a bannable offense. Examples: Double dipping, crazy high life values on Kaom's, OP unstable mirror arrow minions, etc...

There is no absolute truth here, just opinions. Of course GGG's opinion matters the most, but the others are valid, too.

I'm trying hard not to be condescending, but if you can't see the difference in a bug in the code and direct balance decisions, I feel a little bit sorry for you. To me (and lots of others) this is a bug/weakness in the code, letting you take advantage of something you CLEARLY wasn't supposed to be able to take advantage of. Your alert lamps should ring long before this stage.

The fact that you even try to compare/level this with Kaom's Heart or Double Dipping, direct balance decisions by the devs, is beyond me. By miles. I'm sorry, but I think you are trying a little bit too hard to justify a wrong here.

Tell me, if this is not an exploit, what is?

"

plodd wrote:

"

Necromael wrote:

Also, in ToS it is clearly said, any change that devs do, that is intended and they have all rights to say what you can and can't do, despite if it's possible or not possible to do ingame.

If they like, devs can permaban you for writing 12345 and you agreed to that by creating your account.

So you're telling me that if tomorrow they decide (insert anything you like) we can all be permabanned?

The dictator mentality in this game company is real!!!

Fuck that.

That's uh... kinda standard.
Pretty much every EULA, ToS or whatever has some sort of variation on that. "Blah blah blah reserves the right to terminate your account/subscription/services yadda yadda yadda"

That it was not ment to be used this way was obvious from the beginning. However being able to proc it consistently opened up a fun way to do this particular prophecy and it wasn't even super broken (Compared to stranding or flipping) The real question remains, why do prophecies have to be so fucking useless?

Y'all aware you're not paying for this game right?

It's like...given to you...for free...

If GGG doens't agree with you on something (even if they wrong, which they are in some situations, in my opinion)...deal with it.

GGG is free to make up rules how they like.

However, what they need to do is clearly inform players what is okay and what is not.
Their stance on MT was that it was a bannable offense yet no where was this stated outside of a screenshot on reddit. I had asked support if players who had used the exploit in the past without knowing GGG's stance would be banned and they refused to comment so I simply stopped donating money because I thought GGG would potentially make good on their threat despite me not having used the exploit for months by the time the reddit thread was made.

The underlying issue is likely they take too long to identify issues and even longer to fix it. The best example is the league stone fiasco that started this entire mess. The bug was known for a long time but was not reproduce able on their internal server or something along those lines so it went on being abused for far longer than it should have.

MT would have been a non issue if they just fixed it a few days after it was known instead of 6-12 months later. Same for league stones.