Thin line between Clever use of game Mechanis and Exploit. Monstrous Treasure shenanigans.

"

Miská wrote:

Just because something is an exploit (You only know this because GGG stated so)

Are you serious? I know this, because it's 100% CLEAR TO ME that this is NOT an intended mechanic, and that you draw benefits from it that you are not meant to draw. All this based on a difference in loading times that isn't meant to be there.

"Clever use of game mechanics" sounds more and more like an excuse to me. "I am clever, because I have found weaknesses in the code, letting me abuse the game in way not intended". It may be clever as hell, but it's still exploiting, not intended - and should be avoided. And if telling players isn't enough; ban them. To me it IS clear: Don't exploit the game. Just don't. Shouldn't be hard.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

Miská wrote:

Just because something is an exploit (You only know this because GGG stated so)

Are you serious? I know this, because it's 100% CLEAR TO ME that this is NOT an intended mechanic, and that you draw benefits from it that you are not meant to draw. All this based on a difference in loading times that isn't meant to be there.

"Clever use of game mechanics" sounds more and more like an excuse to me. "I am clever, because I have found weaknesses in the code, letting me abuse the game in way not intended". It may be clever as hell, but it's still exploiting, not intended - and should be avoided. And if telling players isn't enough; ban them. To me it IS clear: Don't exploit the game. Just don't. Shouldn't be hard.

Oh come on, there are dozens of similar cases (Some way more extreme) that they deemed not to be an exploit but instead clever use of game mechanics. One thing that easily pops up is corrupted zone farming in docks. If you compare these 2 there is literally no difference, but 1 is an exploit and the other wasn't deemed so. You understand now why this is a problem?

"

Oh come on, there are dozens of similar cases (Some way more extreme) that they deemed not to be an exploit but instead clever use of game mechanics. One thing that easily pops up is corrupted zone farming in docks. If you compare these 2 there is literally no difference, but 1 is an exploit and the other wasn't deemed so. You understand now why this is a problem?

The case where people were using load times to predict side areas isn't the same. They didn't defer a cost. There was no cost for creating an instance. Now, there was supposed to be a charge paid for the CHANCE of getting MT. Instead, they got one every time.

Big difference.

But you just keep right on trying. It's a cheat. We all know it. You're just blind to it.

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

"

Oh come on, there are dozens of similar cases (Some way more extreme) that they deemed not to be an exploit but instead clever use of game mechanics. One thing that easily pops up is corrupted zone farming in docks. If you compare these 2 there is literally no difference, but 1 is an exploit and the other wasn't deemed so. You understand now why this is a problem?

The case where people were using load times to predict side areas isn't the same. They didn't defer a cost. There was no cost for creating an instance. Now, there was supposed to be a charge paid for the CHANCE of getting MT. Instead, they got one every time.

Big difference.

But you just keep right on trying. It's a cheat. We all know it. You're just blind to it.

You are impossible. You think time is not a cost? Do you even understand how much you saved by using the instance load in exploit?

And what do you mean there was supposed to be a charge paid for a chance of getting MT? You can do exactly the same right now with LESS cost. It's pointless to discuss this with you, you are clueless like usual.

"

Miská wrote:

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

Miská wrote:

Just because something is an exploit (You only know this because GGG stated so)

Are you serious? I know this, because it's 100% CLEAR TO ME that this is NOT an intended mechanic, and that you draw benefits from it that you are not meant to draw. All this based on a difference in loading times that isn't meant to be there.

"Clever use of game mechanics" sounds more and more like an excuse to me. "I am clever, because I have found weaknesses in the code, letting me abuse the game in way not intended". It may be clever as hell, but it's still exploiting, not intended - and should be avoided. And if telling players isn't enough; ban them. To me it IS clear: Don't exploit the game. Just don't. Shouldn't be hard.

Oh come on, there are dozens of similar cases (Some way more extreme) that they deemed not to be an exploit but instead clever use of game mechanics. One thing that easily pops up is corrupted zone farming in docks. If you compare these 2 there is literally no difference, but 1 is an exploit and the other wasn't deemed so. You understand now why this is a problem?

If you are talking about the "framerate farming" thing, where you'd see a spike in framerate for masters and corrupted zones spawning in an area. If you are refering to something else, i am confused because docks is a terrible area to farm basically anything now.

And no, GGG said multiple times that this was not okay, and doing this exploit of the system is putting your account at risk. (before it was fixed)

So, please pull out one of the "other dozen" similar cases.

(and i am pretty sure i told you this basically two pages back, short term memory issues?)

"

Cataca wrote:

If you are talking about the "framerate farming" thing, where you'd see a spike in framerate for masters and corrupted zones spawning in an area. If you are refering to something else, i am confused because docks is a terrible area to farm basically anything now.

And no, GGG said multiple times that this was not okay, and doing this exploit of the system is putting your account at risk. (before it was fixed)

So, please pull out one of the "other dozen" similar cases.

(and i am pretty sure i told you this basically two pages back, short term memory issues?)

You must be the one yourself with memory issues. I have never mentioned this before.

P.s Just because you remember something in a certain way doesn't make it true.

"

Chris wrote:

This is one of those cases where we don't want people to do it, but we can't really stop them. We can ban people who consume way too much server resources (by spawning masses of areas), but merely glancing at the graph occasionally isn't really something we can or should ban for.

Our solution will be to fix it from a technical point of view. Until then we'd prefer people didn't use this farming method, but as long as it isn't causing server problems, it's unlikely to be bannable.

Using any kind of external programs to measure this is bannable though.

So much for a clear message.

"

Miská wrote:

"

Cataca wrote:

If you are talking about the "framerate farming" thing, where you'd see a spike in framerate for masters and corrupted zones spawning in an area. If you are refering to something else, i am confused because docks is a terrible area to farm basically anything now.

And no, GGG said multiple times that this was not okay, and doing this exploit of the system is putting your account at risk. (before it was fixed)

So, please pull out one of the "other dozen" similar cases.

(and i am pretty sure i told you this basically two pages back, short term memory issues?)

You must be the one yourself with memory issues. I have never mentioned this before.

Right, guy with a raider avatar, my mistake.

"

Miská wrote:

P.s Just because you remember something in a certain way doesn't make it true.

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Chris wrote:

This is one of those cases where we don't want people to do it, but we can't really stop them. We can ban people who consume way too much server resources (by spawning masses of areas), but merely glancing at the graph occasionally isn't really something we can or should ban for.

Our solution will be to fix it from a technical point of view. Until then we'd prefer people didn't use this farming method, but as long as it isn't causing server problems, it's unlikely to be bannable.

Using any kind of external programs to measure this is bannable though.

So much for a clear message.

The mild wording on this was a mistake, clearly. It doesnt make my point any less valid.

Do notice the

"

We can ban people who consume way too much server resources (by spawning masses of areas)

part of the quote.

What chris was saying back then, was that clearly, they cant legitimately ban someone for gleaning at the framerate graph ocasionally. Plenty of people got temp-banned for mass spawning side areas still, because they just cant read quotes in their entirety.

The reason for that, was mass spawning and discarding side areas. Sound familiar?


Like people are not getting their ass banned for MT, because GGG cant legitimately observe if you do it because you are exploiting MT, or if you forgot your leaguestones and want to abort the map. You still mass spawned maps and discarded it, wasting a much higher average of server load for your own use than others.

GGG clearly said this is an exploit. And that you CAN get banned for it. In both cases. They didnt say you will be. Just that it is not condoned.

Now find me one of those other "dozens" of examples. Where GGG stated "that they deemed not to be an exploit but instead clever use of game mechanics".

Because, there is none. You are making thigs up.

"

Cataca wrote:

What chris was saying back then, was that clearly, they cant legitimately ban someone for gleaning at the framerate graph ocasionally. Plenty of people got temp-banned for mass spawning side areas still, because they just cant read quotes in their entirety.

The reason for that, was mass spawning and discarding side areas. Sound familiar?

No, it actually doesn't sound familiar at all. Let me guess, you don't even know how to force spawn MT? Because it had zero to with spawning anything whatsoever.

Besides that point where you proved to simply follow like a sheep like so many more in this topic, I really couldn't give a flying monkey how you interpreted Chris his quote. It's shady at the least, and certainly does not give a conclusive answer to grey areas in the game. There are countless other examples, but since you have trouble grasping this simple one I won't bother spoonfeeding you. Keep blehhing.

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Miská wrote:

No, it actually doesn't sound familiar at all. Let me guess, you don't even know how to force spawn MT? Because it had zero to with spawning anything whatsoever.

What do you think the server does when it is loading a map? Trying to keep the suspense?

"

Miská wrote:

Besides that point where you proved to simply follow like a sheep like so many more in this topic, I really couldn't give a flying monkey how you interpreted Chris his quote. It's shady at the least, and certainly does not give a conclusive answer to grey areas in the game.

What is inconclusive here? In both examples, GGG came out and said "we wont outright ban you guys, but you have been bad little players." If your moral compass is so screwed up that you need GGG to lord over you and tell you what is right or wrong to not get your ass banned, my condolences.

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Miská wrote:

There are countless other examples, but since you have trouble grasping this simple one I won't bother spoonfeeding you. Keep blehhing.

Yeah, i am sure there are. I am especially interested in those where GGG comes and compliments the community for the "creative use of game mechanics", like you claim.

But hey, keep throwing ad hominems and baseless claims.

"

SaiyanZ wrote:

3 quotes rule

You can forget to roll map, forget to check mods, forget about sextants or leaguestones, etc. etc. - pulling map out of map device is mundane everyday action.

You seem to confuse not intended mechanics (infinite leaguestone) and mechanis that work just like they should (how maps load and prophecies proc), but give you benefit if you find out the way to use it. The only not intended thing in this case is actually getting benefit. You should udnerstand the difference.

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

This thread is such nonsense. It's why we have "or no reason at all" in the terms of service. They don't want to deal with people who make silly arguments to try to justify cheating. It's people like this that make me never play online multiplayer games.

Typical Shags. You don't get what this Thread is about or something?

No one here justified cheating.

Your posts sometimes make little to no sense. Most of them remind old man's grunting just for the sake of it.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

Miská wrote:

Just because something is an exploit (You only know this because GGG stated so)

Are you serious? I know this, because it's 100% CLEAR TO ME that this is NOT an intended mechanic, and that you draw benefits from it that you are not meant to draw. All this based on a difference in loading times that isn't meant to be there.

"Clever use of game mechanics" sounds more and more like an excuse to me. "I am clever, because I have found weaknesses in the code, letting me abuse the game in way not intended". It may be clever as hell, but it's still exploiting, not intended - and should be avoided. And if telling players isn't enough; ban them. To me it IS clear: Don't exploit the game. Just don't. Shouldn't be hard.

What is not intended again?

The only thing that is not intended is you gaining benefit from game mechanics (how map and prohpecies work). It's how maps and prophecies work.