Problems with Spells that don't get mentioned.

I would like to see those "spend hundred points and jewels into mana, it's ment to be like this" running Chayula breach.

no hes not on point, hes talking about not wanting to invest in mana when people have invested in every bit of mana thats there to invest in. He did the same in my thread, said you dont want to invest everything in mana greedy player etc, you should get mana on gear and take mana nodes and run clarity... I showed him I had every mana notable except for mind drinker in the entire top half of the tree along with high rolled flat mana and mana regen on all my jewellery with mana and mana regen on my weapon and was running a lvl21 clarity... and then he just keeps saying the same thing "dont wanna invest in mana think mana nodes are bad lol lol" clown shoes and noddy car response, no its not on point mate, neither is anything you just said.

Im not even in here claiming theres something wrong, at no point have I said I think theres a problem, I just pointed out the FACT that with some skills you really have to leech it, thats the only way its going to work unless you make a tree that literally goes to every class start on the tree besides marauder and takes virtually ever mana node there is to take.


Tendrils as a single target, people in my guild are running around with 500k to 600k dps crit tendril inquisitors farming shaper, uber, guardians etc.
"
Completed 14 ChallengesSnorkle_uk wrote:
Im not even in here claiming theres something wrong, at no point have I said I think theres a problem, I just pointed out the FACT that with some skills you really have to leech it, thats the only way its going to work unless you make a tree that literally goes to every class start on the tree besides marauder and takes virtually ever mana node there is to take.

A nitpick, but leeching is not the only way, Lavianga Spirit flask, regular mana flasks, mana reduction nodes from tree, 2 ascendancies that make mana management trivial, at least 1 another ascendancy that works really great, and probably tens of uniques that do the trick too. Or just replace the most costly support gem for something cheaper.

Regen should be like the least effective way to regain mana when spamming spells (as tradeoff for being the most reliable one).
Not a signature.
Last edited by Turbodevil on Jan 12, 2017 5:10:59 AM
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Completed 14 ChallengesSnorkle_uk wrote:
no hes not on point, hes talking about not wanting to invest in mana when people have invested in every bit of mana thats there to invest in. He did the same in my thread, said you dont want to invest everything in mana greedy player etc, you should get mana on gear and take mana nodes and run clarity...


That he has been wrong about you doesn't rule out the fact that what Sid said is applicable to more players than you might expect.

I'm not on point in saying that people with mana sustain issues are (most likely) the ones to blame rather than there being a significant issue? Or am I not on point in saying Arc is pretty garbage these days?

"
Completed 14 ChallengesSnorkle_uk wrote:
Im not even in here claiming theres something wrong, at no point have I said I think theres a problem, I just pointed out the FACT that with some skills you really have to leech it, thats the only way its going to work unless you make a tree that literally goes to every class start on the tree besides marauder and takes virtually ever mana node there is to take.


We have different ideas about what "working" means. If by "working" you mean being able to stand still for a minute or more, spamming away while not moving, well, thank goodness this doesn't happen in reality, neither is it required.

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Completed 14 ChallengesSnorkle_uk wrote:
Tendrils as a single target, people in my guild are running around with 500k to 600k dps crit tendril inquisitors farming shaper, uber, guardians etc.


Inquisitors can make pretty much any elemental spell work to begin with, furthermore you pretty much have a solid proof here that these spells are, infact, sustainable. Sure, lightning spells are best sustained by way of OP Vinktar, but that doesn't take away the fact that Tin_Foil_Hat was talking about 42 mana reg/sec without clarity, and 82/sec with clarity. Both values illustrate what I said earlier: Sid is on point. And I've heard people complain about sustain issues quite a few times by now, and they all have similar numbers and similar issues.
[quote="ScrotieMcB"]It's just, like, people's opinions, man.

But I cannot respect motherf♪♫♫♪rs calling something a simulator, when it isn't one.[/quote]

Mors edited this post first.
oh the aggro..

truth be told - 6Link lvl21 spell with all the 140% multipliers + bit of cast speed there and there and mana globe almost entirely gray.

when people say that they have 200 mana left and yet their spells cost 120. cool. but your mana is not 200. it is more like 1200 but YOU decided to leave 200 unreserved. YOU have made this choice

and yes, dps greed, treating mana as an obstacle and not a legit part of the build is common, very common. and the higher the dps the stronger urge to get even more of it. and then shock when the gun runs out of ammo because one decided to invest all the resource into single part of the build.

drop one aura, get a flask if you really have to cast this stuff so quickly. but as i can see it makes for a 'non-functional build'. tough. use 5Link then. youve reached the soft-cap created by your perceived valuation of mana and damage. you can make choices, you can change your build, select cheaper multipliers, drop cast speed, get a flask, drop a reservation.. there are options. you do not like them? tough luck vol2.



side note: 42 mana second as a caster? im over f.. whelmed. my melee raider has 54. got the perspective?
i play crit fireball in breach league


think my fireball uses 146 mana to activate. but it's not a problem with assassin's mark. get all the mana back in one attack.


i sometimes use the boot enchantments to help with hex proof maps


most of the time not


also sometimes bring a

if i am fighting a boss that is extraordinary tough like izaro.

this one helps too

Last edited by kompaniet on Jan 12, 2017 2:21:33 PM
Im starting to wonder if people actually understand how mana regeneration is calculated and if they under stand how much investment it actually takes to reach these levels. Apparently they dont soo ill just leave the forumla for it here and feel free to tick tack away at those numbers to see how ridiculous it is.

First off you need to figure out your casts per second which is directly displayed tool tip, .20-.30 casts per second is pretty common for endgame builds with generic amounts of cast speed.

( max mana * 1.75 / 100) + flat regen * total mana regen = mana per second

4 casts per second at 100 mana = 400 MPS

To put it into perspective just how hard it is too get over 400 mana regen per second alone, heres some math on a completely unreasonably sized mana pool WITH regeneration (100%)

4000 x 1.75 / 100 + 17.2 x (2.0) = 174.4 mana per second

Thats not even half the cost of the spell per second even with an unreasonable amount of mana and mana regeneration.

Now tell me how many people are running around with a 4k Mana pool and 100% regeneration ? Answer, no one. Its completely unrealistic, soo now that you see just how shitty mana regeneration and mana scaling is, stop saying that "mana is fine" because it isnt.

Reduced mana cost (nodes) and - mana (jewelry) only directly affect the end result which are insignificant, infact many mana+mana regeneration nodes are better than those, thats how underwhelming and bad they are as options.

Spoiler
At the level of the example given, it doesnt even come close to even giving enough mana regeneration per second to support a 5L spell costing 72 mana at 3 casts per second, think about that for a second.


Spoiler
Also spoiler part two, you arent goign to travel across the tree into no mans land for reduced mana nodes either, thats just common sense. Mana/Mana regen is the only option for Shadow/Witch casters that DONT want a shit build.

"Huh, what's the? I did what!? No I didn't. Oh I did, NO I DIDNT REEEEEEEE" - TD

"Excuse me, youre ruining my forum experience while i post whine threads and spam. Youre literally the most toxic person ever, unacceptable" - GM
Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat on Jan 12, 2017 7:02:48 PM
You can comfortably get way over 250% regen from the tree and some accesories, on top of that, aura effect nodes and mana regen nodes both boost the effect of clarity.

What you present here is napkin math.

You're not supposed to get 100% sustain via regen anyways, especially not with high cast speeds, because you don't need it.

The game expects you to move at some point in time so your mana regen can do what it's supposed to do.

You're supposed to use spells in bursts. If your pool does not allow for bursts, then you have too much mana reserved.

If you want to simply leech tank and sustain use gems, curses or whatever floats your boat.

In other words: Learn to properly make a build that doesn't burn through your 5% unreserved mana.

I have never ever had mana sustain issues in this game when I played a caster.
[quote="ScrotieMcB"]It's just, like, people's opinions, man.

But I cannot respect motherf♪♫♫♪rs calling something a simulator, when it isn't one.[/quote]

Mors edited this post first.
Last edited by Sure_K4y on Jan 12, 2017 7:03:10 PM
"
Sure_K4y wrote:
You can comfortably get way over 250% regen from the tree and some accesories, on top of that, aura effect nodes and mana regen nodes both boost the effect of clarity.

What you present here is napkin math.

You're not supposed to get 100% sustain via regen anyways, especially not with high cast speeds, because you don't need it.

The game expects you to move at some point in time so your mana regen can do what it's supposed to do.

You're supposed to use spells in bursts. If your pool does not allow for bursts, then you have too much mana reserved.

If you want to simply leech tank and sustain use gems, curses or whatever floats your boat.

In other words: Learn to properly make a build that doesn't burn through your 5% unreserved mana.

I have never ever had mana sustain issues in this game when I played a caster.
Youre playing bad builds and it isnt "napkin math"

You guys keep on with the generic fallacies though, youve provided no evidence for any of your statements whatsoever. You are not playing "burst" spells unless youre playing ignite/degen or dropping totem.

Ever play a lightning spell ? Probably not if you think you can just move and cast here and there and hope to play high end content without dieing.

Im sorry but theres a handful of people who dont know what the fuck theyre talking about, at all.

Also Mana Regeneration on gear is a suffix, youre giving up 40% resistences for a mana regeneration suffix which means you arent going to be capped in Red maps for Elemental Weakness + Curses lul. Giving up even a prefix for flat mana is horrid. Guess thats no a problem though if you dont play high tier content.
"Huh, what's the? I did what!? No I didn't. Oh I did, NO I DIDNT REEEEEEEE" - TD

"Excuse me, youre ruining my forum experience while i post whine threads and spam. Youre literally the most toxic person ever, unacceptable" - GM
Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat on Jan 12, 2017 7:08:13 PM
before stuff snowballs..

( max mana * 1.75 / 100) + flat regen * total mana regen = mana per second
it's->
( max mana * 1.75 / 100 + flat regen ) * total mana regen = mana per second

and second thing to consider is spell echo. With it calculated mana consumption is halved.


Other than that, people saying that spell casting should be with cooldowns doesn't reflect the reality. I have yet to see player playing by that style (i'm sure there is some of them, but its minority). Most common option is warlords mark, other options are often bad, because often they are inconvenient.

And other thing, that 5% left free mana after reservation, believe me, i have char with around 40%-45% free mana and it struggles at fighting guardians. Well i suppose all other easier content is ok, but on prolonged fight things changes (running out of pots/vaal clarities).


All in all, i think state isn't that bad for the most part, but i guess there could be more tools or they could change clarity, make it reserve more and vastly increase regeneration on it.
Last edited by Andrius319 on Jan 12, 2017 7:25:29 PM

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