Reduce drastically or eliminate completely the exp lose on death

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herflik wrote:

...

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herflik wrote:

Challange:
Take any top POE player you want and give him 1 month to do this one song (just survive on it on standard setting, they can try to memorize it but wont help much):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeA8D0rDzH0

Simple game mechanic, just 4 buttons. Probably no person you pick will make it without hacks. Thats what player skill is. For you its impossible, for some its normal gameplay.

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rararaputin wrote:

I like to see people cry that they can't get to level 90... Means you can't faceroll the game completely(nevermind ggg mess up with pathfinder/bv+flasks, hope it is fixed). There should be death and it should hurt.

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lagwin1980 wrote:

it was halved...i vote bring it back to it's old value.

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Vhlad wrote:

The problem with these discussions is that for most of the game the death penalty is trivial relative to the rate of XP gain. Even at level 80 you typically don't lose more than 5 minutes of progression when you die.

So we repeatedly have players coming in threads like these and saying the death penalty is fine, or should be raised, and +1-ing each other, largely because they don't have a single character above level 90 and haven't experienced how the penalty scales.

Ultimately the question is: How much of a time/progression penalty should a non-hc player receive when their character dies?

There's a small (very small, if you look at HC league participation) but vocal hardcore mindset audience who might say the penalty should be infinite. But that audience is not what non-hc leagues are supposed to be tailored for.

My position is that the death penalty in standard is poorly tailored for players playing characters level 90+ who don't want to lose, say, more than an hour of progression when they die. At 95+ the penalty eliminates 6+ hours. This penalty scaling seems to be poorly understood by players who haven't reached these levels (or selfishly justified by players who have no intention of ever leveling that far, who just want to see the more dedicated players suffer/slowed down).

With the recent XP changes, a blanket 10% death penalty in these upper levels is excessively penalizing relative to the amount of time (and maps/currency) required to gain 10%. How many players honestly enjoy games that eliminate 6+ hours of effort when you make a mistake, lag/disconnect, or get RNG 1-shot? It's the combination of an easy game and a severe penalty at upper levels that make this unbearable. It's incredibly fatiguing to give the game your full attention for 8+ hours consecutive when you're face rolling content. It's not an enjoyable kind of tension when the penalty is that high (if it was enjoyable for you, you'd be playing HC).

We can argue for pages about secondary or tertiary things like build selection, skill, servers, bugs, reward for challenge avoidance, or other considerations like how the labyrinth introduced multiple death penalties (you need to restart your run from scratch and repay the offering entry fee, and you lose 10%). But the primary question for this sort of feedback will always be, how much time should a standard player lose when they die?

There are other ways of phrasing this, like how many consecutive T15 maps should a player be able to run deathless in order to progress? (i.e. what's an adequate performance/attentiveness standard?) As-is, you can run 30 T15 maps deathless but make 0 progress if you die once on map #31. Does GGG honestly think that's enjoyable for the most number of players? (do the players who haven't even run 30 T15s in their entire lifetime completely lack the empathy to see why a 6+ hour penalty is terrible?)

If you look at the popular streamers, they all abandon their builds and play something new at around 92. The enjoyability of the 92-100 grind is clearly not on target.