It's time for preleveled/preascended characters to enter the shop or be made available somehow.

"

morbo wrote:

But since there is nothing to win,

xD

The game is already fully pay to win, might as well embrace it. I'd support pre-levelled characters in the cash shop. It's more honest than trade/currency tabs.

"

Hemmingfish wrote:

The game is already fully pay to win, might as well embrace it. I'd support pre-levelled characters in the cash shop. It's more honest than trade/currency tabs.

biggest crybaby bullshit I have ever read.

"

Xtorma wrote:

"

Hemmingfish wrote:

The game is already fully pay to win, might as well embrace it. I'd support pre-levelled characters in the cash shop. It's more honest than trade/currency tabs.

biggest crybaby bullshit I have ever read.

Tabs are pay to win. It just isn't nearly as bad as selling items in game, or setting up pay walls. And in fact I'm perfectly happy with paying for tabs. I've got like 40 or something like that. I'm still not sure how I feel about selling pre-leveled characters but I don't find it offensive as long as it isn't done in Hardcore (Hardcore is about survival, getting a pre-leveled character kind of defeats the purpose), during racing events (I think this one goes without saying), or the race to 100 in leagues (because it biases the race).

I'm not saying any of it is p2w. People saying stash tabs are p2w have a very skewed opinion of the subject. Hard to take them seriously here. Even if you call pre-leveled characters p2w (which it really isn't), I still am not sure what people think is being "won" by it. So I challenge these people to define "winning" in the context of this game without coming to the wrong conclusion that convenience is a form of winning (because it's not).

"

Albinosaurus wrote:

I'm not saying any of it is p2w. People saying stash tabs are p2w have a very skewed opinion of the subject. Hard to take them seriously here. Even if you call pre-leveled characters p2w (which it really isn't), I still am not sure what people think is being "won" by it. So I challenge these people to define "winning" in the context of this game without coming to the wrong conclusion that convenience is a form of winning (because it's not).

Pay to win is the model where giving money to the creators gives a clear advantage in playing a game -- it has nothing to do with actually winning anything. This is different from most of the model of PoE which is pay for perk where perks are generically cosmetic, armour skins, skill effects etc.

Stash tabs are very clearly pay to win under this definition, but because you can mule accounts and characters to accomplish the same thing what you're really buying is time and convenience. Thus the argument can be made that tabs are not pay to win, but pay for convenience. But it's a really fast and loose argument and can be applied to public stash tabs/3rd party trading software. This is what some people might consider a reasonable compromise.

Paying for leveled characters can very easily go into the pay to win category, because it offers people a clear advantage for spending money. But the argument can be made, just like stash tabs, that you're not offering anything that people cannot obtain themselves, so it is still pay for convenience. But the pay for convenience mentality for this would only hold if there were restrictions for things like races, and the race to 100, and probably hardcore too (since the purpose of hardcore is to present a challenge).

"

ghoulavenger wrote:

Tabs are pay to win.

"

morbo wrote:

The only false equivalence in this BS idea thread: "PoE is already Pay-to-win, so might as well go full retard Pay-to-win".

I'm surprised anyone takes this seriously when clearly Pyro is joking.

but read between the lines and Pyro has a point: leveling becomes very tedious very fast - and the fact there really isn't much to do except repeat the exact same 4 acts of content, before you get to maps (to repeat stuff again)...
pain incarnate.

there surely is another way.
GGG are focusing on "End Game". I hope they don't forget about "the game" itself.

You should be able to roll any character of any level that you have raised all other classes up to. So if you have gotten all classes up to a minimum of level 83, you should be able to start a brand new character at lvl 83. In the two perm leagues. It's fucking stupid to have to start back to 0 to try out a new build after 20+ characters.

"

johnKeys wrote:

I'm surprised anyone takes this seriously when clearly Pyro is joking.

Why do you believe this? Nothing he has posted in this thread indicates that he's anything other than genuine. If this is somehow only an attempt at humor, it's anything but "clear" that he's joking.