So are you going to continue the trend of no legacy items?

I can't fathom some of the standard players frustration right now personally like okay we've had several of them like the last ''legacy'' nerf to chaos was not retro now it is? What the fuck lol

Imo its going to make alot of people quit if it is, as thats the only appeal left in the permanent league. Retroactive nerfs are quite frankly bullshit, except in probably one case which is Crown of Eyes.

I think nerfing chaos would be fine, but i dont think retroactively nerfing is fine. I think they should have gone the route of nerfing the total amount of damage after conversion for specifically chaos, because thats the main problem if you ask me.

But yeah, retroactive nerfs completely remove a major selling point of playing in a permenant league, which isnt good. The reason why people play permanent leagues to begin with is often to strive for those OP legacy goodies.

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SaiyanZ wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Imo its going to make alot of people quit if it is, as thats the only appeal left in the permanent league. Retroactive nerfs are quite frankly bullshit, except in probably one case which is Crown of Eyes.

I think nerfing chaos would be fine, but i dont think retroactively nerfing is fine. I think they should have gone the route of nerfing the total amount of damage after conversion for specifically chaos, because thats the main problem if you ask me.

But yeah, retroactive nerfs completely remove a major selling point of playing in a permenant league, which isnt good. The reason why people play permanent leagues to begin with is often to strive for those OP legacy goodies.

There are still plenty of OP legacy uniques in Standard that are not going anywhere. So people will stil l have reason to play Standard. I have a few:

Then there's also mirror items in Standard if min-maxing is your thing.

Yeah but for people whove been there a long time, they more than likely have alot of those.

A lack of legacy items is going to hurt because nothing has gone legacy since, what, Mjolner in 2.0 ? About a year ago ? Then they started doing "retroactive" nerfs instead of legacy creation.

Standard hasn't seen a lot of temp league content. And in the podcast when we hear that talisman was a half a million $ league (and how much was perandus? prophecy?), it's starting to feel really bad being a standard player and supporter.

Adding league mods to standard via zana for a fee is a pretty unsatisfying and punitive way to experience league content. I'd like to see all of it rolled into standard, full scale (including adding league uniques to the drop pool), when the league ends. Waiting 3 months for the content is penalty enough. Heck, if player choice is a concern take a page out of the victor vran hex system and give us a UI to enable/disable league mods.

If standard is losing item permanency it really needs to start getting love in other ways.

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Vhlad wrote:

Standard hasn't seen a lot of temp league content. And in the podcast when we hear that talisman was a half a million $ league (and how much was perandus? prophecy?), it's starting to feel really bad being a standard player and supporter.

Adding league mods to standard via zana for a fee is a pretty unsatisfying and punitive way to experience league content. I'd like to see all of it rolled into standard, full scale (including adding league uniques to the drop pool), when the league ends. Waiting 3 months for the content is penalty enough. Heck, if player choice is a concern take a page out of the victor vran hex system and give us a UI to enable/disable league mods.

If standard is losing item permanency it really needs to start getting love in other ways.

Im in agreement entirely here. Its precisely why i havent used any of my Mirrors especially after that crit multiplier global change which effectively fucked every single legacy crit multi item.

I honestly dont trust GGG enough at this point to ever use a Mirror on any of the legacy rares. Theres a trending amount of retroactive changes and it destroys the reason to play in standard.

I really hope they comment on this. It's fine to nerf items without creating legacies, as long as they're consistent about it. However, their stance has been that existing items won't receive numerical changes, only new ones will.

How can they justify creating legacy VoV, ToH, and Mjolner, but nerfing Voltaxic, which probably a lot more players own and use? If there's a reason, I'd be satisfied. If this is a change of direction, again, that's fine. I just want to know if that's the case so I know what to expect.

LUL

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ThatsSoGoodman wrote:

I really hope they comment on this. It's fine to nerf items without creating legacies, as long as they're consistent about it. However, their stance has been that existing items won't receive numerical changes, only new ones will.

How can they justify creating legacy VoV, ToH, and Mjolner, but nerfing Voltaxic, which probably a lot more players own and use? If there's a reason, I'd be satisfied. If this is a change of direction, again, that's fine. I just want to know if that's the case so I know what to expect.

I feel the reason is because they could, and that these items are being nerfed for serious balance reasons. theres items that have been nerfed for balance, and they were op, but a kind of acceptable op that eventually became a bit too stale meta and needed shelved for freshness.

What these items do is a bit ridiculous, if they leave legacy in its not like soul taker where some dudes have a bit more dps, what these things do with 100% conversion is fundamentally different and broken. You can still do it with a mantle and 2 legacy consuming daggers, but it now needs that for a full conversion or at least the non legacy 3 set for close enough to 100%. If they didnt make it retroactive then standard would just be chaos meta forever basically, they couldnt let that happen for the health of standard.

It was nowhere near restrictive enough, most spells, defense types, doesnt matter, just convert everything to chaos or to fire then to chaos and do whatever, life based, ci, armour, evasion, doesnt matter. Probably literally doesnt matter because youre farming uber still wearing a tabula and alching anything that comes out of a chains that bind card is essentially an upgrade of sorts on your already facerolling the world build.

I dunno, Im glad to see the meta gone and Im glad it wont just haunt standard forever. I feel like 50 es extra on a legacy shavs, 10% phys to lightning on a coil, these sort of legacy items are trivial in comparison to the difference between a 100% chaos voltaxic and a 60%. Kaoms was an example of a massive nerf like that, and the reason it wasnt so problematic was because it was rare as fuck anyway and the game was about 8 months old. If everyone and their dog had a legacy kaoms heart right now it would be an issue for game balance in a way everyone owning a legacy coil really isnt.

All those misguided posts about legacy items basically making a 2 class system of players, that what ppl do with legacy items is so ridiculous new players cant ever keep up etc. Those posts arnt true for the most, its people who dont see the picture properly getting carried away with themselves. But if they let these conversions go legacy that would be exactly what would happen, it would be all that crap people talk about legacy items actually happening in the game. Personally Im glad GGG are actually down the middle on it, leaving people their legacy items where they can and its fine then stepping in on situations like this where the nightmare scenario of the legacy haters might actually have some substance. They seem to be dealing with it case by case and imo, theyre getting it right for the most.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Imo its going to make alot of people quit if it is, as thats the only appeal left in the permanent league. Retroactive nerfs are quite frankly bullshit, except in probably one case which is Crown of Eyes.

I think nerfing chaos would be fine, but i dont think retroactively nerfing is fine. I think they should have gone the route of nerfing the total amount of damage after conversion for specifically chaos, because thats the main problem if you ask me.

But yeah, retroactive nerfs completely remove a major selling point of playing in a permenant league, which isnt good. The reason why people play permanent leagues to begin with is often to strive for those OP legacy goodies.

If change happened, it happened for a reason. :V The reason implies there was something wrong with the item. Why would fixing an item be bullshit?

these changes (legacy or nonlegacy) are mostly due to technical reasons. they insist on it being impossible to reroll items (that obviously being false but whatever) so they stick to it: if it is possible they do. if not they dont. simple as that.

chaos conversion is not an elegant fix - it was the double dip that needed the change the most - but it removes the chaos-master-race and evens out the field.

people liking easy no risk gameplay are still invited to CoCS party

btw i trully hope they fix the frost wall idiocy