Please scale spectres up as well as down (Or another alternative for summoner QoL)

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sucemab wrote:

+1 for upscaling specters with zone level. Should be easy to implement since there is a downscale at the moment.

For those saying it would have been done if it was so easy : why do I have to type /remaining when I'm doing a map instead of looking a displayed counter ?
It is just an exemple and you can find many others but this is not the topic.

An argument can be made that it is not just effort that is holding such changes back but rather a directed intentional unwillingness to do so.

in gui design the minimalistic approach is often the most aesthetically pleasing so additional clutter is not desired especially if it is just some hack job text number in a corner like you see in those system monitor applications. so there is a clear argument there.


as for spectres believe it or not some of the on record arguments given by the devs themselves are this:

They dont want rushed characters to be able to breeze through content since level scaled spectres could possibly carry them.

But there is also the possibility that devs never wanted people to select a specific spectre and run with it , rather they wanted a more pick up what you have handy and go type of vibe.

which is very strange given how heavily this game focuses on min maxing and how heavily it punishes any kind of generalizing or side tracking of any kind.


another theory is that high level monsters technically hit very very hard which , combined with the scaling from a player characters influence , could be seen as game breaking . remeber there was a time where a certain spectre base was posting damage in the millions per second.

this is strengthened by the fact that most gems stop with a ilevel of 70. suggesting the targeted power of any spell should be a base of around 70 prior to player scaling.

so easy access to say level 80+ spectres could realistically make things like other summons (which rely on gem level to get most of their power) seem weak.

but i find that idea kind of fishy considering how easily once can scale those other minion gems. you can get ilevel 80 minions via corruptions/ empower and stacking + items so making it difficult to acquire spectres in the high levels is entirely unnecessary .


Not too mention on the pantheon of op shit in this game... summoners arent even in the top ten (with exception as always in the case of srs .. that was op)

Bumpy

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

as for spectres believe it or not some of the on record arguments given by the devs themselves are this:

They dont want rushed characters to be able to breeze through content since level scaled spectres could possibly carry them.

Well, it would sure be more fun than, say, split arrow in my storm cloud bow carrying me. I mean really? I can rush one character a day to 50 at my snail's pace. That's me working alone. You want to avoid one "set of equipment" carrying someone to endgame, GGG? Delete Tabula from the game. Ha. I didn't think your resolve was that strong.

hypocritical bullshit.

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But there is also the possibility that devs never wanted people to select a specific spectre and run with it , rather they wanted a more pick up what you have handy and go type of vibe.

I don't know where you got that idea, but THAT'S FUCKING STUPID. That's like saying you should just pick up whatever skill gems are lying on the ground and socket them into your weapon.

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which is very strange given how heavily this game focuses on min maxing and how heavily it punishes any kind of generalizing or side tracking of any kind.

Not strange. FUCKING STUPID.

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another theory is that high level monsters technically hit very very hard which , combined with the scaling from a player characters influence , could be seen as game breaking . remeber there was a time where a certain spectre base was posting damage in the millions per second.

They sure as hell fixed that though, didn't they? As to the issue at hand? pff. Let 'em eat cake.

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this is strengthened by the fact that most gems stop with a ilevel of 70. suggesting the targeted power of any spell should be a base of around 70 prior to player scaling.

so easy access to say level 80+ spectres could realistically make things like other summons (which rely on gem level to get most of their power) seem weak.

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That's the point. I have level 70 zombies in a level 80 map. I had better have something a little more punchy to call upon.

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but i find that idea kind of fishy considering how easily once can scale those other minion gems. you can get ilevel 80 minions via corruptions/ empower and stacking + items so making it difficult to acquire spectres in the high levels is entirely unnecessary .

That's right.

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Not too mention on the pantheon of op shit in this game... summoners arent even in the top ten (with exception as always in the case of srs .. that was op)

I don't rly think scaling up spectres would be kind of fair it basicly gives you a 'weapon'that can be picked up rly early and remains usable until highest tiers of maps.However having played several classic summoners myself in the past I got a first hand experience of the clunky system we curently have for spectres.Also to top it off maps don;t have specific spectres so if your favourite 'toy'dies you can't pop a map that has it and pick a new one.
To add even more insult to injury if you log off or disconnect your high lvl spectres you may have found after like 20 random maps are gone.
So I'm all for keeping spectres if you log off or disconnect as for QOL with summoning new ones maybe have the raise spectre gem retain the minion level and type.This way if you lose them you wont ragequit because you got to search through maps again for the 1 minion but it'll still push you to run higher content to get higher level minions.

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dreynar_swag wrote:

I don't rly think scaling up spectres would be kind of fair it basicly gives you a 'weapon'that can be picked up rly early and remains usable until highest tiers of maps.

Oh you mean like this: http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Pillar_of_the_Caged_God


Why is that not a problem with SRS? Why is that not a problem with Skeletons or Zombies?

The drawback of playing a summoner is having summons you have to direct and recast. You have to watch their health, you have to pull them out of packs of bearers, you have to do what you can to help them survive, which sometimes means you are very vulnerable. Of course spectres raised with a level 10 Raise Spectre gem are going to be really weak compared to the ones raised with a level 20/10q gem so no, they're not going to carry you through the game. Go ahead and try it out. Go into any map and summon your favorite spectre using a low-level gem and see how they fare in the same map. They might survive if you've taken the Soul Weaver notable ascendancy, but they will hit pretty weakly, compared to the 20/20 spectres.

You're postulating about abuses that aren't even realistic.

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However having played several classic summoners myself in the past I got a first hand experience of the clunky system we curently have for spectres.Also to top it off maps don;t have specific spectres so if your favourite 'toy'dies you can't pop a map that has it and pick a new one.

So we need to have access to spectres that are appropriate to the content we're playing. A level 63 undying incincerator will quickly become an exploding dead incinerator in a tier 7 map. Really this is about access to content more than anything else. I can't play above tier 6 with the build I've created unless i want to fart around with swapping colors and support gems, and that's really pathetic. I can do it, because my chest piece is corrupt with 2 white sockets. But it would be chromatic hell if I had to reroll colors every goddamn day to match whatever well-usable mobs RNGesus decides to throw my way. It's a stupid penalty system that shouldn't exist. One thing that would make life better (and it's been suggested already in this thread) is if there were a mob graveyard zone, area level 84, where there's nothing but piles of corpses, each in a little area that corresponds to the tileset where those mobs are commonly found. If I want to use one puncture archer and link him with GMP, and chain, and use him to proc bleed for my zombies + bloodlust, and use 3 melee spectres also with bloodlust, that should be an option. As it is, the humans who use puncture are only in very low game zones, and random maps (with a high probability of being in the village ruin and a few others)

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To add even more insult to injury if you log off or disconnect your high lvl spectres you may have found after like 20 random maps are gone.
So I'm all for keeping spectres if you log off or disconnect as for QOL with summoning new ones maybe have the raise spectre gem retain the minion level and type.This way if you lose them you wont ragequit because you got to search through maps again for the 1 minion but it'll still push you to run higher content to get higher level minions.

that would be an acceptable compromise.

Bumpy

I hope I will revive my summoner someday.

personally i already gave up on spectres as a damage source as it is just too cumbersome.

now i just go to act two and summon 3 of the frenzy monkeys with echo and minion life. call it a day. plus it is easier on the gem slots when you go from a 5l - 6l spectre to a 3l