[2.6] The Curse Whisperer - Tri-Curse CI Whispering Ice EleRaider - Viable for Everything

There is a new option made available in 2.5: Scorching Ray + Cast while Channelling instead of Spell Echo and one of the DPS gems. What it does is effectively make your Icestorm cast time 0.35 sec, eliminate the mana cost almost completely, and add an extra debuff for enemy fire resistance.

For example, if your cast time is 0.45 sec, Spell Echo makes you stop for 0.9 sec and cast Icestorm twice. That's what creates that 'stun' illusion and makes you slow to react. It's fine since you are doing high DPS and the build is designed to facetank almost everything, you very rarely need to dodge or react fast.

With SR+CwC you stop for only 0.35 sec but cast Icestorm once instead of twice. That makes you much more mobile/reactive. You can stop and cast Icestorm via channelling the beam for as long as you need to, and the absolute best part is that you can stop instantly at any time. When you cast Icestorm directly, you cannot stop the casting animation and move in the middle of it. When you use SR+CwC you are free to stop channelling at any time. That is a very good feature.

Another good side is the mana cost. You only spend 12-14 mana to cast SR. This means you can spam Icestorm at will and never run out of mana pre-casting it on the bosses before they go active.

Both the faster casting time and the negligible mana cost are fantastic news for leveling. I am going to update all versions of the build to use SR+CwC for leveling.

However, there is a price to pay at high levels: SR+CwC is lower DPS than SE+another gem. And that might matter in some fights and have more or less effect on different versions of the build. For example, the Inquisitor version gets 55% increased cast speed against the bosses, so it already casts Icestorm faster than 0.35 sec while facetanking on consecrated ground. SR+CwC would increase its mobility vs targets like Uber Atziri or the Shaper where you sometimes need to move quickly, but it would lower the DPS and leech amount, and make the encounter longer. So I'm not quite sure that this will work for all versions of the build past the leveling stage.

For the Scion, it's also remains to be seen. Raider is already very fast while clearing, however that goes away when you are fighting a boss that doesn't spawn adds. So maybe use SR+CwC in the boss staff but stay with SE in the trash clearing/MF staff. Then again, which gem to replace? The Scion already uses CtF instead of one of the higher DPS gems. Switch to Pyre like the other versions? That's an option to consider too. I just don't have time to check everything right now.

And I like the Juggernaut suggestion. Chill immunity is a lot more valuable now than it was in 2.2. Hydra, Shaper, Tul breaches - being immune to chill would be really helpful there. Plus some more survivability that Juggernaut provides. The Scion has been a bit more squishy than the other versions.

I'm leaning towards switching from Raider to Juggernaut, using SR+CwC and possibly switching from AoF+CtF+Perandus to Pyre+DPS+skill points. But I don't have time to do enough testing right now. If somebody is willing to try that and share their experience - that would be great.

I've been playing the scion this league (think I might be the only one.. they are an endangered species) after doing witch last league. Elementalist/Raider ascendancies. Up to level 94 now - character is public "Kelbreach" if anyone wants to take a look. I switched to Ray+CWC around level 80 when I first heard about it, and was able to do everything up to non-Hydra T16's with it. I liked the cast speed and not having to worry about mana so I could run my Arctic Armor even though my Enlighten was still level 2. But yesterday my Enlighten hit level 3 so I switched back to self-cast. Even with the "echo lag" it just instantly felt stronger to me. I feel like I'm clearing faster, and I can handle a bit tougher mods on the T16 bosses (other than Hydra.. she is really rough for me). So I'm planning on sticking with self-cast unless I read about someone having more success with Ray+CWC at higher levels. Btw, I was running Ray-CWC-CTF-FPen-EFocus-LL as my link; so maybe there is a better combo out there.

I'm intrigued by the Juggernaut idea, hadn't considered that. Getting rid of chill would be really nice, and endurance charges can't hurt. Basically trading some clear speed for some defense against bosses, in which case maybe should just roll the Inquisitor version instead. But it might be fun to test at some point.

Playing Scion Ele/Raider WI build as 2nd char this league and like it very much! Was afraid of facetanking at first when I started maps but soon noticed how tanky it is against almost anything.
At least when gear is ok, flaks are used and you pay attention to drop Orb and get fortify. Only downside for me is Leap Slam, it feels soooo slow (with FA) compared to other movement skills.
Reached Lvl84 now and have medium gear at best but no issues up to T11.

Kelvynn have you tried Chayula this league on your berserker? Just gave it a shot on the scion and ran out of time, didn't even come close to finishing.

Yeah, Leap Slam is one of the weaker points of the Scion version, but you want Fortify against bosses. You just get used to it being clunky and start planning your moves 2-3 sec ahead.

I am trying a new class in this league (Berserker) and it doesn't have that problem at all due to his melee-oriented Ascendancy giving him a lot of attack speed. Of course, he has other issues instead (no elemental defenses plus 10% increased damage taken on top of that, ouch!).

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Kelsier0 wrote:

Kelvynn have you tried Chayula this league on your berserker? Just gave it a shot on the scion and ran out of time, didn't even come close to finishing.

Nope, I haven't got that far yet. My play time in this league is much lower than the last 3, I'm almost at the endgame but not quite there yet.

Can anyone help me please? I love this build and I'm levelling really well with it. Or I was until I took Avatar of Fire at level 56. For some reason I seem to be getting 1-hit by any half decent mobs from rare up. Breaches just smash me before I can do much. Resistances are 40-70% and ES is 1.6k. Even with damage going and WM up I'm seeing my ES go from full to zero before I can move.

Any ideas? Gear hadn't changed and when I did try for more defence it didn't matter. V confused!

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CharleyVN wrote:

Can anyone help me please? I love this build and I'm levelling really well with it. Or I was until I took Avatar of Fire at level 56. For some reason I seem to be getting 1-hit by any half decent mobs from rare up. Breaches just smash me before I can do much. Resistances are 40-70% and ES is 1.6k. Even with damage going and WM up I'm seeing my ES go from full to zero before I can move.

Any ideas? Gear hadn't changed and when I did try for more defence it didn't matter. V confused!

You may want to un-hide your characters in your profile if you want help. Obviously, taking AoF has nothing to do with your issue. But I can't see what else is wrong.

Except having 1.6k ES at lv 56. That's too low. And getting killed too easily suggests very low DPS. All of which may be caused by the extremely low Int. You probably just entered A4C and didn't upgrade your gear as suggested. See Troubleshooting.

Your resists are 40-70% where? In hideout or in the actual zones where you get killed?

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Kelvynn wrote:

I'm leaning towards switching from Raider to Juggernaut, using SR+CwC and possibly switching from AoF+CtF+Perandus to Pyre+DPS+skill points. But I don't have time to do enough testing right now. If somebody is willing to try that and share their experience - that would be great.

with doing this, what skill points and such would you trade for the AoF?

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4nzkiwi wrote:

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Kelvynn wrote:

I'm leaning towards switching from Raider to Juggernaut, using SR+CwC and possibly switching from AoF+CtF+Perandus to Pyre+DPS+skill points. But I don't have time to do enough testing right now. If somebody is willing to try that and share their experience - that would be great.

with doing this, what skill points and such would you trade for the AoF?

AoF costs 2 skill points to get. Switching from AoF to Pyre frees up 2 skill points that you can use to complete the build 2 levels earlier. Pyre also helps a lot with maxing resists. The downside is losing Perandus Signet - it gives a lot of Int at high levels.

This may not be a good thing to do. It's just one of the options to try alongside with Juggernaut and CwC.

Well, my 2.5 Berserker is producing some results with CwC:

[2.5] WI Berserker Uber Lab Run

I compared his damage with SE-CD vs SR-CwC (the other 4 gems are LL-FP-EF-CE).

With SE-CD his Icestorm cast time is 0.45 sec (2.22 casts per second), tooltip 9692, i.e. 2.22 * 9692 = 21516 raw DPS per icicle. He stops for 0.9 sec to double-cast it, and with mana cost 132 he can pre-cast it 2 times before the boss goes active (with Enlighten lv 3), or 4 stacked Icestorms before the start of the fight.

With SR-CwC the cast time is the fixed 0.35 sec (2.86 casts per second), tooltip is 8071, i.e. 2.86 * 8071 = 23060 raw DPS per icicle. He is never forced to stop although he does need to channel SR for at least 0.35 sec to get Icestorm cast, and with mana cost 18 he can cast freely without ever running out of mana, pre-casting 14 stacked Icestorms (5.22 duration / 0.35 cast time = 14) before the start of the fight.

That alone makes CwC superior for the class with 0.45 Icestorm cast time. But there is also SR itself that has a 5972 DPS tooltip for stage 1 (increasing by 60% per stage for 7 more stages, i.e. after 2.45 sec of channelling it reaches stage 8 and deals 31054 DPS) and it decreases the enemy fire resistance by 3% per stage (-24% at stage 8).

So for Berserker this is a done deal. And if the Scion switches from Raider to Juggernaut (and loses frenzy charges and Onslaught, which she doesn't have against the top bosses anyway) then her Icestorm cast time will be just as slow and SR-CwC will work just as well as for Berserker.

I'm liking this new setup more and more.