Game needs Eternals back (and here's why) |Petition|

^ Actually that was quiet funny ^^

Agree with Scrotie on divines as currency for master crafting.
Would help SF player as well as other people to craft stuff.

Still... I am all for the comeback of eternals. "feasible timeframe" is very subjective, but if it takes for a single player more than 10k hours to at least come close to a "perfect" item that's a fucking huge amount of time. These mirror worthy items in std. weren't made by a single person, it took month for the whole community to gather the material. That's the amount of afford that is necessary to be able to achieve these items... at least it was. And it was "too easy" x.X

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goetzjam wrote:

Increasing the number of divines isn't the solution at all, why on earth should master crafting cost divines for almost everything, it was much better when it was a variety of cost, divines for some, exalts for some and eternals for others.

So, ignoring Lenny because fuck Lenny, I have 7 master benches in my HO.

Between them they offer 275 crafts.

Of those 275 crafts, 12 are priced in divines.

Scrotie suggested 2 of them be changed to divines.

This would be 14 crafts out of 275.

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goetzjam wrote:

divines for almost everything

Let's look to see if there was a more sane way that this was meant.

Again ignoring Larry, let's look at the master-meta mods offered by 5 of those 7 (Verucci and Zena excluded).

The 5 meta-crafts are...

Cortana, Exalts.
Haiku, Exalts.
Tara, Exalts.
Elrond, Exalts.
Vegan, Blesseds.

4 in exalts, 1 in blesseds.

Scrotie was suggesting changing 2 of those exalt ones to divines.

This would then be...

2 in exalts, 2 in divines, 1 in blesseds.

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goetzjam wrote:

almost everything

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goetzjam wrote:

it was much better when it was a variety of cost, divines for some, exalts for some and eternals for others.

Well, currently, the master 'eternal' craft costs 4 exalts. 2 exalts to add the pref/suff cannot be changed to allow scouring the unwanted mods and then 2 exalts to try for the desired 2 mods before deciding if you want to keep or repeat, at another 4 exalts.

4 exalts per go.

Whith the changes Scrotie suggested, this would be 2 divines to master mod, then 2 exalts.

2 exalts, 2 divines per go (and a scour).

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goetzjam wrote:

it was much better when it was a variety of cost

4 ex

v

2 div 2 ex

Scrotie is doing what you want. You are going against what you say you want.


I mean, back on page 16 or something you were blithering on about everything costing exalts being bad.

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goetzjam wrote:

not this bullshit everything cost exalts stuff

So split it into divines and exalts.

\o/ we got it sorted. (I really don't believe that, I'm actually sure goetz is gonna move the goalposts ballpark again)






Edit: corrections.

Redacted

Well, the removal of Eternals would be perfectly fine if the mod pool, especially for weapons, was not needlessly diluted and if the top-end mods had higher chances to spawn.

Let's see what Eternals do... this is what the stuff that drops in game looks in terms of quality:



No perfect items drop, a lot of the stuff is bad, a little bit is mediocre, and practically nothing is GG. Everything is freaking far from perfect. Some is so bad you have to laugh.

Now, introduce Eternals.



They don't make the average item better. They make perfect items. Few of them, most people have no access and keep up with their mediocre stuff.

Now add some Mirrors:



You don't clone shit. You clone perfect items. The 70% items are just not there. Check poe.trade. They don't exist. This is for a weapon btw, other items are not that bad. And I ignore master crafting here.

The question is, though, wouldn't it be much better if the drops looked more like this?




Perfect items would still be pretty much impossible (but maybe not totally impossible), and everyone could have more decent gear. Balancing would be easier and new players would be less frustrated. Temp leagues would get significantly better items, and could craft using the Eternal bench crafting method described in this thread.

I don't quite get why GGG doesn't take that path.

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Char1983 wrote:

Now add some Mirrors:

You don't clone shit. You clone perfect items.

You know, I actually remember a time when people didn't Mirror perfect items. Damn good items, yes, actually the best on the server at the time. But not perfect. It was actually fun for a while, even though I was (am?) poor, to see the leapfrogging of Mirror items from one name, to another name, to another.

But then the leapfrogging stopped. There was no more room for better. Mirror items were perfect. Or only a few thousand Divines away, which is pretty much the same thing.

The sad truth is, the way to fix Mirrors is to power creep like a motherfucker. Make more "tier zero" affixes, or maybe even affixes beyond that (tier -1?) until the best dagger/bow/ESchest/whatever isn't a perfect item anymore. Make the highest tier affix so incredibly rare that even trying to Alteration to it feels like an accomplishment.

Make perfect so borderline impossible that Mirror holders are forced to settle for best, not perfect. Then you'll have fixed Mirrors.

The right time for rare convergence is never.

True, but that means: Eternals have to stay gone. And rares will eventually realistically have to be possible to be crafted better than current mirror bases, which means significant power creep.

Eternals did IMHO do massive damage to Standard. Mirrors amplify that damage.

And the suggestion I made would mean that perfect items are not going to be accomplished (at least not any time soon). At least it was meant to be balanced that way.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

The right time for rare convergence is never.

I've been addressing the argument why is this wrong in this post and several other threads in this subforum. You & the guys who keep treating a unlikely sequence of outcomes as the holy grail just keep re-iterating "convergence bad." Why is this good for the game? I hope you have something better than "longevity duh." Why is it good for the players who care about the "95%+ perfect" items? Really think about that last one.



Also I believe you guys should respect the fact that you've never hit L100, and haven't owned rare items worth over 50ex (I guess Anu has but I have no idea what his actual opinion is). Spending the timeto get L100 and being rewarded with a sense of emptiness isn't really something you can theorycraft about until you've spent the time and paid the opportunity cost. Likewise, when buying an item that costs 40ex more than your current 10ex one, there's few like it on the market, and you're only getting a 10% upgrade. Do you know what the decision process is like there? You're wondering, "damn I worked for these 40ex, am I overpaying for this? Is this a huge mistake? Am I gonna regret this? Should I really be spending 40ex on a 10% upgrade?!" If you've never had to make these expensive/time consuming decisions, and had to deal with their consequences, why are you guys theorycrafting about the best game design philosophy? This is a game, it shouldn't be endlessly difficult and increasingly unrewarding, that's worse than real life, who would want to play that.

This will never be interesting again. I've never been rich enough to hold a mirror, but I do like spectating and I used to enjoy keeping track of what the top items were. Eternals made the rare system so stale, the top items haven't changed for probably over a year now. Bleugh, I wish they were never introduced.

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MatrixFactor wrote:

[...]

The problem IMHO is not the Eternal orbs alone. Or the convergence. The problem is the convergence in combination with the fact that the perfect item can then be cloned an arbitrary amount of times. It sets an upper limit to the cost of rare items, which is especially a problem in the 50-100 Exalt regime if you ask me.

Pay 10 Exalt -> get a good bow
Pay 30 Exalt -> get a 20% better bow
Pay 100 Exalt -> get another 20% better
Pay 300 Exalt -> get another 100% better ?!?


And you are right, I don't own a 50+ Exalt rare item. The most expensive rare item I own is probably this:



No idea how much it is worth. Found it myself, linked it myself, was pretty happy.

@MatrixFactor:

Going from 2t1 to 3t1 to 4t1 is all fully protected under the master meta-mod system. So getting 4 perfect affixes, a master-crafted affix of your choice, and a random yolo Exalt affix is actually more doable now than it was pre-masters, when Eternal Orbs still dropped.

Is that seriously not good enough for you?

Past that, it's difficult. As it should be.

Regarding Divines, the stress on Exalts caused by the master-crafting system is currently extreme, and deserves toning down.