Game needs Eternals back (and here's why) |Petition|
" No, I was not measuring power as rarity, but power as crafting power. With 500 ex you cannot produce these items, you can buy them. With a mirror, you can produce that 6T1 item (not yourself unless you have the mirror base, but someone can). You are intertwining power and rarity with market value to tell me that the market value is fine - which is a bit of a circle argument. You are not wrong, its just a different way of looking at things. As I said, measuring the power of items is difficult, and properly pricing extremely rare currencies is even more difficult. Eternals for 2-3 Exalt though? Even I would buy them. " True, though I think your numbers are off. Where I differ, though, is the conclusions I draw from that. If you re-introduce Eternals without removing mirrors, crafting a 6T1 weapon (or 6T0 weapon) will still be more expensive than a mirror. Only the very rich will do it. Some other people will use Eternals for their own personal crafting, but mostly it is going to be the top 10-30 players doing it. Then there will be the players who can acquire mirrors, again a very very small percentage of the player base. They are not better off than they are now, though they can choose from more mirror bases. For the majority of the player base (including me, and I am not even poor), nothing changes. Eternals provide a way to beat the affix system, and a comparably insanely easy way to acquire 6T0 items. Master crafting provides a way to beat the affix system a little bit. But not really. Still pretty expensive, though. So if you ask me, the solution is:
That helps the average player most, and helps the crafter quite a bit because it will be easier to craft high-end items via bench crafting. It also leaves the 6T0 items to be very very hard to impossible to acquire, which is good, because then you have a goal if you need one. On the other hand, it decreases the power differential between that 40 Exalt bow and that mirror bow, which at the moment is more than a factor of 2 in terms of kill speed. These large differences in turn produce balance problems, because a factor of 2 in terms of DPS output is a very large difference not only in clear speed for maps, but also in terms of survivability (you cannot kill things before they reach you any more). " True :). I also have seen two apologies in the last two pages, which is a rare read (thanks specifically for those, I know it can be difficult). Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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Having played more hours than I can conveniently count without ever having found an eternal (before they were removed) I can't say the change impacted me directly. I have seen, however, a serious creep in currency exchange rates which I think we can tie directly to this change, and that's a larger overall problem that I feel negatively impacts the game and its economy.
To be clear, I'm signing on but I do not think this is ever going to happen |
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" That is a point that I think hasn't been discussed all that much because a great number of people in this thread only play on standard, where the rates did seem to increase, but nothing like what the temp leagues have had happened. @ScrotieMcB I think masters and eternals can co-exists the issue is when masters were introduced it also introduced various exploits that allowed for crafting of items in a much lower cost. I don't know if you recall but one such exploit was an item rollback, effectively removing the need to eternal at all, which lead to crafting a sick item for next to nothing. People saw this item crafted in a temp league and said "that shouldn't be possible" and technically it was an exploit that allowed it, not eternals and not any "legit" crafting method. I guess I just don't see why you think masters and eternals can co-exists. Masters were designed to be an early to medium crafting help\progression with some later crafting assistance with specific mods like weapon range, cannot roll XX mods, ect. The only other issue was the hybrid mod when masters first came out, obviously that was an oversight, but again how can you blame eternals for that? @Ashen_Shugar_IV Its not so much that people in temp leagues won't or can't use eternals or mirrors, back when eternals were around they still were used and more specifically demanded at least for master crafting if nothing else. In terms of mirror use its not highly likely that people will really use them in a HC temp league anymore because the cost of mirroring something is too high considering the item quality they could possible mirror is likely very low without eternals. My issue with this topic and standard players is you already have various items that are mirror worthy, the removal of the eternal orb, IMO has less of an impact on your league because of the previously eternal+exalted items. You can build up wealth over time and eventually get that super insane item, even if you can no longer make it anymore, temp league players can't really even get but a small fraction of those items, even if they had a mirror and various currency built up. I touched on this a bit about the fact no eternals means basically no incentive to play the temp league after a month or so, but no one said anything, no disagree or agreement. In terms of the arctic boss kill being voided, it was absolutely necessary because they had fixed farmable locations for arcanist boxes. However thats a race, not a temp league or anything "major" game balance should be done first and foremost for the consideration of the temp leagues. Again nothing wrong with players playing in standard and doing long term progression thing (i too collect things so I can try out there) but the temp leagues are what drive the most active amount of players, sells the most MTX's and revamps life into a game that would be much less interesting. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. | |
" The point is: We don't WANT those items. At least I don't. They are broken. They shouldn't exist in the first place. Would make balancing easier and the game more fun for the average player. Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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" Balance and standard don't go together. It never has and never will, all the previous legacy items and legacy mods still exists in that place. If you don't want those items your only choice is to play in temp leagues. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. | |
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No long-term character progression in temp leagues, no chance to get to T15 maps (cannot even get there in Standard) - not a choice for me.
Standard could be balanced if they wanted to, it just seems like they don't care. Which is sad. Really broken in Standard? Only the legacy and mirror gear, everything else is pretty much fine. OK Voll's is pretty retarded, but then again, it can be acquired in temp leagues as well. Remove Horticrafting station storage limit. Last edited by Char1983 on Feb 10, 2016, 10:36:45 AM
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" So whats the issue with playing in standard and just ignoring the in balances around you, like legacy items and mirrored gear? How do you think they could balance standard, the league where nothing ever leaves and eventually everything ends up at? https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. | |
" In an economy, you cannot ignore those items, because they influence the economy. " Not allow legacy items. Legacy Kaom's gets to be perfect non-legacy Kaom's, legacy Shavs gets to be perfect non-legacy Shavs. Eternals are a problem, a bit of a fix would be to make Mirrors lock both items. Legacy mods like IIQ on rings just get removed. Would upset a lot of people though, so the better solution is: Rename Standard into Legacy and re-start a new permanent league with all the knowledge acquired in the past years. Where no legacy stuff exists. The problem is not the dumping of stuff from the temp leagues, though that doesn't help either. Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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" I guess an economy is important for long term progression. Not allowing legacy items isn't really an option though, you can't take someones previously found item and nerf the values on it. GGG already changes the tree, skill gems and monsters life\damage, they don't need to retroactively change items in an ARPG game (which loot is extremely important aspect of that) Do I think they went a bit overboard with legacy items, yup, but its a necessary evil. Another perm league doens't "solve" the issue just kinda leaves people that have more then you and splits the playerbase. But we are slightly off topic at this point. What standard is now should have been foreseen once 1.0 hit, in terms of what others have compared to you that doesn't matter except the economy factor, which again is much less important then the temp league economies, which was my larger point I made above. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. | |
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Have played a lot of (hc) temp leagues... they usually were ghosted after 3/4th of their lifespan except some people that tried to minmax their chars. Since 2.0 hits the time until a hc league seems to be ghosted is now 1/3 - 1/2 of the lifespan... minmax? Not a topic at all, just discussion why the league was boring or is the next update hype stuff or just more of the same. The removal of eternals are not the root of all problems but it took away the minmax at the end of many people including me... the items you start maps with are most likely the final items your build will use, just minor updates.
Have a problem with something I said? PM goetzjam don't derail a thread.
'There's plenty that needs to change. And back in my day we had real game devs.' - TheAnuhart Last edited by ScrotieMcB on February 30, 2016 0:61 PM Help Charan color the board - use [u color] to make your posts shine. |
