Blade Fall need to be destroyed?

"

Nephalim wrote:

There will always be a t1 group and that's what the streamers and their mindless followers use every league. You will always have this happen so the goal is to make this t1 pool as large and diverse as possible.

there will always be a skill that is a 'bit' more better than others. sure. streamers/racers always seek the edge

but, the 'bit' should be controlled. bladefall blastrain and shit like vaal spark are not controlled. they are simply better. why does a bladefall- an aoe skill with a huge aoe -have a 120 damage effectiveness ? it doesnt even make common sense and goes against GGGs whole philosophy

the whole 't1 pool as large as possible' is done better the other way around- make skills as balanced as possible so as to being really hard to pick out a skill that is simply better than others.

the point is to make the 'edge' of any particular build over another no more than a 55-45 odds. right now bladefall is 95/5 is roughly in edge against any spell

if you dont do that and just follow your advise, you have a retarded power creep.

"

If you're saying its alright for attackers to have t1 skills but spells do not get one outside of CoC then that's your opinion.

no Im not saying that, Im saying its not alright for any group of skills to have a skill that stands out among the rest by a mile.

I dont do 'categories' or 'group' cheerleading. I dont have a preference for melee, bow or casters or any other groups. poe is a game of numbers that should be balanced to me, and theyre not for a lot of skills, and are obviously not balanced to the point Im starting to think thats intentional.

what youre doing is refusing to follow rules because there are other people that dont follow rules. why point at other groups ? your point if there was no bladefall no one would play any other spells, right ? well, sure. but if there was no bladefall, cyclone, vaal spark, blastrain, split arrow, etc and all offenders were gone, there would be diversity.

intra-group diversity is way more important than inter-group diversity. simply because there are dozens of spells/bow attacks/melee attacks, but only 3-4 main skill types (spells, bow attacks, melee attacks).

Is not a matter of "needs to be destroyed" or not, Bladefall WILL be destroyed simply because a large percentage of the playerbase is using it actively, no relation to its power ceiling whatsoever, exact same situation with Incinerate last league.

Same with poison.

GGG nerfs based on statistics, not on actual relative balance, which is unimportant for the game, this is an ARPG after all, not a competitive MOBA.

"

yotmato wrote:

Is not a matter of "needs to be destroyed" or not, Bladefall WILL be destroyed simply because a large percentage of the playerbase is using it actively, no relation to its power ceiling whatsoever, exact same situation with Incinerate last league.

Same with poison.

GGG nerfs based on statistics, not on actual relative balance, which is unimportant for the game, this is an ARPG after all, not a competitive MOBA.

Absolutely correct. Even if BF was balanced in the grand scheme of things its too popular.

Streamers popularize and in turn destroy skills and builds, a vicious cycle that will never end until people stop flocking to what ever uber leet streamer is using for the month.

A ridiculously OP build or mechanic utilized by a small number of players will never get nerfed.

"

yotmato wrote:

GGG nerfs based on statistics, not on actual relative balance, which is unimportant for the game, this is an ARPG after all, not a competitive MOBA.

disagree. if this was a single-player game, no one including yours truly would care about balance. I mean, torchlight 2 vanilla had shitty ass balance period, and I didnt care much

one of the very appeals of poe is balance, to me. poe markets itself as a quasi-competitive game where balance is important.

having meaningful choice is one of the basic philosophies of GGG and is one of the chief reasons I'm still playing this game three years after I started playing it.

having a skill that is clearly better than other skills simply destroys and mocks that concept

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

Pewzor wrote:

Why is there no massive QQ over LL Voll's Discharge BV/EK/Arc yet there's QQ against BF always baffles me.

You could probably start at gear requirements. I would hope that most people who advocate nerfing a skill have tried it, especially when it's just a matter of gem+basic supports.



Now, when you get to high wealth, then things like Discharge start to enter the picture, and I'm not arguing with you that Discharge is ridiculous.

It's just that BF is also pretty ridiculous, even in hobo gear.

buys 5l volls protector with 2 green 3b , total cost 55 chaos
buys crappy vagan daggar from vagan, rolls crit chance on it. total cost , 2 chaos maybe more if you get super unlucky or if you want a skean

buys maligaros .. 2exa.

buy ammy with crit on it. 4 chaos for a decent one
buys 2 rings with elreon mod, from elreon .... rolls them about 4 - 10c , or you could spurge and get 2 diamond elreon rings.

fill everything else out with the now much cheaper resist gear on the market . (i got 3 tri res pieces for under 8c each).

run warlords on blasphemy to bypass the loss of life leech in a 6l volls.
proc full discharges with whirling blades.

build complete

so i am confused.. is that really that expensive? thats like what 3 exa? hell I made that much in a day from a lucky drop.



I think people dont realize how extremely easy it is to get discharge doing op damage with coc these days. Realistically speaking coc is the least expensive top tier build in the game to start gearing for. does it have a high ceiling for investment? sure . so do many things. voll devotion , a very much optional 6l volls protector , good crit rolled elreon rings and a master modded vagan daggar can cost a player upwards of 40+ exa .

but all you need to do to get 300k aoe dps coc discharge is 3 exa and a little luck.

We need to stop thinking that coc is somehow a rich person only build. its not. anyone can do it.

blah blah so you are saying discharge is overpowered... right?

I am kinda lost here kid.

Your build looks so bad i dont know wtf you were thinking... and my discharger sustains 5.2 million dps indefinitely without flasks not 300k. With 9.2k ES 79/79/79/79 res.

Still hasn't seem any BF builds that 1/3 of my clear speed and 32 second uber kill.

Bladefall and discharge should both get nerfed into worthlessness if not delete from the game... is the main conclusion so far in this thread.

Both of those retarded skills are killing PoE bladefall and discharge is the only reason why there's still more people playing D3 than PoE.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

Pewzor wrote:

Why is there no massive QQ over LL Voll's Discharge BV/EK/Arc yet there's QQ against BF always baffles me.

You could probably start at gear requirements. I would hope that most people who advocate nerfing a skill have tried it, especially when it's just a matter of gem+basic supports.



Now, when you get to high wealth, then things like Discharge start to enter the picture, and I'm not arguing with you that Discharge is ridiculous.

It's just that BF is also pretty ridiculous, even in hobo gear.

buys 5l volls protector with 2 green 3b , total cost 55 chaos
buys crappy vagan daggar from vagan, rolls crit chance on it. total cost , 2 chaos maybe more if you get super unlucky or if you want a skean

buys maligaros .. 2exa.

buy ammy with crit on it. 4 chaos for a decent one
buys 2 rings with elreon mod, from elreon .... rolls them about 4 - 10c , or you could spurge and get 2 diamond elreon rings.

fill everything else out with the now much cheaper resist gear on the market . (i got 3 tri res pieces for under 8c each).

run warlords on blasphemy to bypass the loss of life leech in a 6l volls.
proc full discharges with whirling blades.

build complete

so i am confused.. is that really that expensive? thats like what 3 exa? hell I made that much in a day from a lucky drop.



I think people dont realize how extremely easy it is to get discharge doing op damage with coc these days. Realistically speaking coc is the least expensive top tier build in the game to start gearing for. does it have a high ceiling for investment? sure . so do many things. voll devotion , a very much optional 6l volls protector , good crit rolled elreon rings and a master modded vagan daggar can cost a player upwards of 40+ exa .

but all you need to do to get 300k aoe dps coc discharge is 3 exa and a little luck.

We need to stop thinking that coc is somehow a rich person only build. its not. anyone can do it.

No build is expensive if you use trash gear. Not sure your point. I can buy a 5L Voltaxic too for blast rain. 5L LC for LA. Skimp on WED, etc. But you won't be doing top end content either with cheap builds. Show me you uber run or even 14/15 maps with 3ex discharge.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

Pewzor wrote:

Why is there no massive QQ over LL Voll's Discharge BV/EK/Arc yet there's QQ against BF always baffles me.

You could probably start at gear requirements. I would hope that most people who advocate nerfing a skill have tried it, especially when it's just a matter of gem+basic supports.



Now, when you get to high wealth, then things like Discharge start to enter the picture, and I'm not arguing with you that Discharge is ridiculous.

It's just that BF is also pretty ridiculous, even in hobo gear.

buys 5l volls protector with 2 green 3b , total cost 55 chaos
buys crappy vagan daggar from vagan, rolls crit chance on it. total cost , 2 chaos maybe more if you get super unlucky or if you want a skean

buys maligaros .. 2exa.

buy ammy with crit on it. 4 chaos for a decent one
buys 2 rings with elreon mod, from elreon .... rolls them about 4 - 10c , or you could spurge and get 2 diamond elreon rings.

fill everything else out with the now much cheaper resist gear on the market . (i got 3 tri res pieces for under 8c each).

run warlords on blasphemy to bypass the loss of life leech in a 6l volls.
proc full discharges with whirling blades.

build complete

so i am confused.. is that really that expensive? thats like what 3 exa? hell I made that much in a day from a lucky drop.

3 Exalt > 1 Orb of Chance.

Just slap Bladefall in some random build, with literally zero gear support, and it's likely to be about as good as what the build was originally designed to do. The cost of testing is what a Bladefall gem costs from vendor. Especially for a lot of the more mediocre builds out there... and the vast majority of the feedback comes from players who are not working towards top-tier builds.

So to answer your question: for the vast majority of the playerbase, to include the vast majority commenting on balance... yes. For a speculative investment in experimentation, it is too expensive.

I hope, however, that GGG has enough sense to filter such feedback appropriately: Bladefall is too good at low levels of build investment, and not necessarily too good at high levels of build investment. My suggestion would be, yes, nerf the core skill, but also give it more support in terms of itemization and passives so that those dedicated to the skill can still get good use out of it. Simultaneously give it a direct nerf and an indirect buff, essentially.

Unfortunately, such a suggestion relies on the assumption that GGG has a solid understanding of nuance.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Unfortunately, such a suggestion relies on the assumption that GGG has a solid understanding of nuance.

Did you just bitch slap the balance team?

Peace,

-Boem-

"

grepman wrote:

"

yotmato wrote:

GGG nerfs based on statistics, not on actual relative balance, which is unimportant for the game, this is an ARPG after all, not a competitive MOBA.

disagree. if this was a single-player game, no one including yours truly would care about balance. I mean, torchlight 2 vanilla had shitty ass balance period, and I didnt care much

one of the very appeals of poe is balance, to me. poe markets itself as a quasi-competitive game where balance is important.

having meaningful choice is one of the basic philosophies of GGG and is one of the chief reasons I'm still playing this game three years after I started playing it.

having a skill that is clearly better than other skills simply destroys and mocks that concept

He is correct in every way single possible lol, If a skill has no complaints / threads about it in both reddit and forums it's not going to be targeted. See vaal spark last league; Wasn't enough complaints so they said okay it's obviously fine.

How many threads did incinerate get? Probably 5-10 per week lol
How many threads is bladefalling getting? Same thing likely.