Blade Fall need to be destroyed?

So, you think that BladeFall is the problem?
The problem is the Balance Team, they need to be destroyed absolutely. BladeFall is just a symptom...


https://youtu.be/LBAkn0KsUlo

I'm sure I could do the same in Gorge. My items are normal:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Pewzor wrote:

Why is there no massive QQ over LL Voll's Discharge BV/EK/Arc yet there's QQ against BF always baffles me.

You could probably start at gear requirements. I would hope that most people who advocate nerfing a skill have tried it, especially when it's just a matter of gem+basic supports.



Now, when you get to high wealth, then things like Discharge start to enter the picture, and I'm not arguing with you that Discharge is ridiculous.

It's just that BF is also pretty ridiculous, even in hobo gear.

buys 5l volls protector with 2 green 3b , total cost 55 chaos
buys crappy vagan daggar from vagan, rolls crit chance on it. total cost , 2 chaos maybe more if you get super unlucky or if you want a skean

buys maligaros .. 2exa.

buy ammy with crit on it. 4 chaos for a decent one
buys 2 rings with elreon mod, from elreon .... rolls them about 4 - 10c , or you could spurge and get 2 diamond elreon rings.

fill everything else out with the now much cheaper resist gear on the market . (i got 3 tri res pieces for under 8c each).

run warlords on blasphemy to bypass the loss of life leech in a 6l volls.
proc full discharges with whirling blades.

build complete

so i am confused.. is that really that expensive? thats like what 3 exa? hell I made that much in a day from a lucky drop.



I think people dont realize how extremely easy it is to get discharge doing op damage with coc these days. Realistically speaking coc is the least expensive top tier build in the game to start gearing for. does it have a high ceiling for investment? sure . so do many things. voll devotion , a very much optional 6l volls protector , good crit rolled elreon rings and a master modded vagan daggar can cost a player upwards of 40+ exa .

but all you need to do to get 300k aoe dps coc discharge is 3 exa and a little luck.

We need to stop thinking that coc is somehow a rich person only build. its not. anyone can do it.

^The fragmentation that exist's is

op gear <-> op skill

If the two match you get meta builds.

If only one is checked/matches you can still have extremely powerful builds.

The underlying issue is that "op skill" is a static value, while "op gear" is not. Thus there is a limit to how far you can push a build simply by it's "gem ceiling".

Overall correct balance of skills allows for builds to appear comparable. Where only the play-style gets changed up.

Peace,

-Boem-

they need to buff non-chaos damage flat out.

bladefall is just retarded. and its obvious to anyone who plays different skills. it has big ass AOE coverage, 120% damage effectiveness (wtf), has sick base damage and of top of it all it can poison being a phys spell

I understand that its better to err on the 'too op' side as opposed to 'garbage' side when releasing new skill so people play it as opposed to throwing it in the trash can and quitting the game, but come on GGG...that skill had no business being so op out of the box, with no support or anything.

things like skyforth, vinktars flask and bladefall/blast rain along with ascendancy makes me wonder if GGG said 'fuck it' to balance altogether. this is really sad, as I dont agree at all with the idea of throwing bunch of op shit in there for x time and then gradually tone it down. that's fake balancing.

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grepman wrote:

bladefall is just retarded. and its obvious to anyone who plays different skills. it has big ass AOE coverage, 120% damage effectiveness (wtf), has sick base damage and of top of it all it can poison being a phys spell

I understand that its better to err on the 'too op' side as opposed to 'garbage' side when releasing new skill so people play it as opposed to throwing it in the trash can and quitting the game, but come on GGG...that skill had no business being so op out of the box, with no support or anything.

things like skyforth, vinktars flask and bladefall/blast rain along with ascendancy makes me wonder if GGG said 'fuck it' to balance altogether. this is really sad, as I dont agree at all with the idea of throwing bunch of op shit in there for x time and then gradually tone it down. that's fake balancing.

GGG gives players nukes but makes monster damage unreasonably high.

You're offensive power is meaningless if you cant progress past level 90.

This has been their design philosophy for a very long time after they did symmetrical nerfs to player defensive.

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Nephalim wrote:

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grepman wrote:

bladefall is just retarded. and its obvious to anyone who plays different skills. it has big ass AOE coverage, 120% damage effectiveness (wtf), has sick base damage and of top of it all it can poison being a phys spell

I understand that its better to err on the 'too op' side as opposed to 'garbage' side when releasing new skill so people play it as opposed to throwing it in the trash can and quitting the game, but come on GGG...that skill had no business being so op out of the box, with no support or anything.

things like skyforth, vinktars flask and bladefall/blast rain along with ascendancy makes me wonder if GGG said 'fuck it' to balance altogether. this is really sad, as I dont agree at all with the idea of throwing bunch of op shit in there for x time and then gradually tone it down. that's fake balancing.

GGG gives players nukes but makes monster damage unreasonably high.

You're offensive power is meaningless if you cant progress past level 90.

This has been their design philosophy for a very long time after they did symmetrical nerfs to player defensive.

Im not really talking about nukes (well I am, but thats more of the clear speed thread thing)

Im talking about making choices. if something is clearly better than alternative, there is no choice. skyforth is simply way too good compared to other options. so is vinktars. so is bladefall

however, at least the former two are at least hard to get- skyforth is super rare and vinktars is somewhat gated

bladefall is currently an answer to almost anything (good build for a noob, good build for someone with no currency, good build for zero damage investment defensively sound player, good build for clearing hall of grandmasters, good build for maps, good build for uber...what is it actually BAD for ?). Im surprised bladefall doesnt have a built-in leech because otherwise its an ultimate skill in itself without any support gems needed.

its like when they finally nerfed the fuckery that was incinerate they decided to introduce a skill that is even more blatantly op.

This highlights the crappiness of existing non-vaal spells after incinerate was incinerated.

What do spell casters have a tier 1 skill compared to cyclone or blastrain?
None of the existing spells outside of BF are tuned to the level of ranged and melee attack skills.

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Nephalim wrote:

This highlights the crappiness of existing non-vaal spells after incinerate was incinerated.

What do spell casters have a tier 1 skill compared to cyclone or blastrain?
None of the existing spells outside of BF are tuned to the level of ranged and melee attack skills.

hold on here

either youre moving the goalposts or we have a concrete disagreement on basic level

my view is that any choice of skills in which one stands out, is a badly designed choice of skills- because there is no real choice. an overwhelming majority of players will choose the skill that is clearly better

the fact that there are some bow/melee skills better out of the box than spells, is irrelevant. those skills are also problematic (although cyclone less so nowadays, while blastrain is also retarded- introduced in 2.1 as well)

you're actually arguing that spellcasters need a 't1 skill' to compete with 'others'? I mean, really ? really ? there should be no 't1 skill' to begin with.

balance implies such balance of skills that makes all (or at least overwhelming majority of) skills in a group good alternatives.

if we go with 'every group should have a "t1 skill"', theres no balance to start with.

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grepman wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

This highlights the crappiness of existing non-vaal spells after incinerate was incinerated.

What do spell casters have a tier 1 skill compared to cyclone or blastrain?
None of the existing spells outside of BF are tuned to the level of ranged and melee attack skills.

hold on here

either youre moving the goalposts or we have a concrete disagreement on basic level

my view is that any choice of skills in which one stands out, is a badly designed choice of skills- because there is no real choice. an overwhelming majority of players will choose the skill that is clearly better

the fact that there are some bow/melee skills better out of the box than spells, is irrelevant. those skills are also problematic (although cyclone less so nowadays, while blastrain is also retarded- introduced in 2.1 as well)

you're actually arguing that spellcasters need a 't1 skill' to compete with 'others'? I mean, really ? really ? there should be no 't1 skill' to begin with.

balance implies such balance of skills that makes all (or at least overwhelming majority of) skills in a group good alternatives.

if we go with 'every group should have a "t1 skill"', theres no balance to start with.

There will always be a t1 group and that's what the streamers and their mindless followers use every league. You will always have this happen so the goal is to make this t1 pool as large and diverse as possible.

Having a spell be in that inevitable group is a good thing otherwise we see nothing but melee and ranged attackers.

If you're saying its alright for attackers to have t1 skills but spells do not get one outside of CoC then that's your opinion.