Can we have flashback events in the permanent SC/HC?

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bjornNL wrote:

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Wiseman wrote:

No1 cares about standard really, its like a ghost league.

most active leage uhm :P

Most active league based on what information?


GGG hasn't released the activity or % of league players in like 2 years. If going by metric of pure playtime I can assure you the temp leagues have more, especially the first 1-2 months that the temp leagues start.


In terms of raw numbers, not accounting for playtime standard might have more, but every dead race character (that isn't voided) and every temp league player that attempts to sort their stash all end up messing with something in standard, hardly can call it most active then.

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goetzjam wrote:

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bjornNL wrote:

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Wiseman wrote:

No1 cares about standard really, its like a ghost league.

most active leage uhm :P

Most active league based on what information?


GGG hasn't released the activity or % of league players in like 2 years. If going by metric of pure playtime I can assure you the temp leagues have more, especially the first 1-2 months that the temp leagues start.


In terms of raw numbers, not accounting for playtime standard might have more, but every dead race character (that isn't voided) and every temp league player that attempts to sort their stash all end up messing with something in standard, hardly can call it most active then.

I think bjorn is right about 'most active league' but then again... can only base my assumptions on activity in towns. At least standard is placed #1 or #2 depends how much people are in temp sc.
Both hc leagues aren't fierce competitions to any std. league, I think we can agree on this. ;)

... another assumption: GGG keeps the number hidden because their promoted way of playing the game isn't the most favored one andd GGG fears bad PR more than players having fun? :X

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kcstar wrote:

I think bjorn is right about 'most active league' but then again... can only base my assumptions on activity in towns. At least standard is placed #1 or #2 depends how much people are in temp sc.
Both hc leagues aren't fierce competitions to any std. league, I think we can agree on this. ;)

... another assumption: GGG keeps the number hidden because their promoted way of playing the game isn't the most favored one andd GGG fears bad PR more than players having fun? :X

Most active based on what criteria though. My point is that temp league players likely log 2-3 times the playtime of standard players over the course of the first 1-2 months of the new temp leagues. In terms of raw logins into standard I don't think its fair to compare all the dead racers or the huge wave of temp league players after the league ends sorting their stash as "playing"

Perhaps the best judge of "playtime" would be people actually logged in and killing monsters, but as far as I know there isn't anyway we can see this information.

I think the HC temp league at its peak likely sees 1:1 ratio with standard playtime during the course of its actual peak playtime. Even if it has a lessor % of players, those players that play doso much more then the "dedicated" players in standard. Again this is just an assumption, the SC temp league likely tops both by a large margin.

Regardless of activity, which is just a minor point in this whole topic I think its important for people to realize that 1 league doesn't fit all needs, but at the same time temp leagues need to remain unique and perm leagues well they are there for long term progression.

GGG likely keeps the number hidden because they don't have a benefit to share that information. They did so in the past and people are clinging to that information as if it were somehow still fact and true when its too far outdated to be relevant anymore. Its like using stock market data from 2 years ago today or better yet oil prices.

Agree, we are all clueless about the real activity and our assumptions are nothing else than the pov we have.

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goetzjam wrote:

GGG likely keeps the number hidden because they don't have a benefit to share that information. They did so in the past and people are clinging to that information as if it were somehow still fact and true when its too far outdated to be relevant anymore. Its like using stock market data from 2 years ago today or better yet oil prices.

Disagree, there were no problems back then... the problems began as GGG started to keep the information hidden. Everybody uses this data on any discussion because it's the only data we have, everything else are assumptions ... and if anyone says 'everything should be balanced around temps' (he then can't claim it's the most active league... because we don't know) it's like ... 'lalalala everything should be balanced around xyz because i want to lalala'.
Companies release data on two occasions... they are forced to or they are proud of... yeah, you are right... they have no benefit of it... probably because the climax is already something of the past.

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kcstar wrote:

Agree, we are all clueless about the real activity and our assumptions are nothing else than the pov we have.

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goetzjam wrote:

GGG likely keeps the number hidden because they don't have a benefit to share that information. They did so in the past and people are clinging to that information as if it were somehow still fact and true when its too far outdated to be relevant anymore. Its like using stock market data from 2 years ago today or better yet oil prices.

Disagree, there were no problems back then... the problems began as GGG started to keep the information hidden. Everybody uses this data on any discussion because it's the only data we have, everything else are assumptions ... and if anyone says 'everything should be balanced around temps' (he then can't claim it's the most active league... because we don't know) it's like ... 'lalalala everything should be balanced around xyz because i want to lalala'.
Companies release data on two occasions... they are forced to or they are proud of... yeah, you are right... they have no benefit of it... probably because the climax is already something of the past.

The climax for you and I likely have already passed, but for people that aren't as experienced with the game or that haven't reached the same milestones as you and I that climax is likely yet to happen.

Its an interesting thing about games like this and how people play and enjoy them. I find my playtime significantly lower each and every league since 2.0, I can't pinpoint the exact reason on that perhaps my attention spam is lower, perhaps acquiring and completing my goals are quicker. Perhaps in the most recent cases GGG gave us no other option but to "quit" because they just had 1 league idea across both temp leagues, so I don't have a choice either I play in the THC league which I don't find interesting really or I play in standard, which I can't be bothered to piece together a working character just to loot items that ultimately have 0 affect on my enjoyment.


There were problems back then IMO because people push discussions and topics based on information given. If GGG were to always cater to the majority this game would be significantly different, not just in design but function. Many of the request we see here on the forums, most notably anything that caters specifically to self found, also helps players that are less likely to trade or less likely to participate in the economy. However the game would be much worst if said changes were applied because its the general effect\homogenization that makes this ARPG more like another or more like another game, which its not designed to compete with. Hell IMO this game wasn't designed to compete with any game, except maybe draw an audience from hiding and pull some of the older D2 fans back into the genre with a twist on a classic game design. The more homogenized the game gets, the less twist it has and the less interesting it becomes to a person like me.

Ggg have stated in forum discussions in general that standard is about 30% of players, obviously that will rise and fall in relation to the temp leagues. I think its a great idea to spice up standard.

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goetzjam wrote:

The climax for you and I likely have already passed, but for people that aren't as experienced with the game or that haven't reached the same milestones as you and I that climax is likely yet to happen.

Have to go now, can't discuss this further atm, but with "climax" I meant the numbers of players in total.

I still spend way too much time on this game... but it's no longer a 10+ hour sessions, even at the start of a league... after 1 or 2 hours I get bored or annoyed by something... and really need a break (to spend time here on the forum ^^) ... and yes, it started with 2.0... actually with the 2.0 beta... or the "hype" before the beta!? don't know... 2015 was a horrible year for PoE IMO >.>

Ive always felt standard should rotate weekly or maybe bi-weekly between past leagues. Its not bribery any more than exclusive mtx for buyi....completeing challenges in a temp league or flashback. What about race rewards? How is that not bribing you to play something you probably dont care about just for the skin transfers? How many people race to win and how many people race to get x amount of points for the reward they want?

now now , some of those races are actually pretty fun

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yungwhiz wrote:

Ive always felt standard should rotate weekly or maybe bi-weekly between past leagues. Its not bribery any more than exclusive mtx for buyi....completeing challenges in a temp league or flashback. What about race rewards? How is that not bribing you to play something you probably dont care about just for the skin transfers? How many people race to win and how many people race to get x amount of points for the reward they want?

Races are different and its clear GGG doesn't want racing to have an impact in the temp leagues because after the latest round of QQ (which might have included me) they increased the duration it takes before you can pull race rewards into the temp leagues from 2 weeks to 4. By 1 month in the economical advantage you can get from race rewards, assuming your not selling like the 500\1000 point reward isn't THAT large, previously when the race rewards were numerous MF items or other good rewards people gained a real advantage by gaining the actual item to use or sell. Probably the biggest offender was the MF belt, because at the time the only thing that could compete with it was the IIQ belt, which up until divination cards were added BiS, now I think the IIQ one is better.

Not going to just strait up say they don't have much of an impact, but its so much less of an issue then it was in the past. Personally I think it would suck not to be able to get race rewards in temp leagues, but TBH it shouldn't have been allowed in the first place.


Standard shouldn't rotate thru shit, its been the same way since day 1, its incentive to play has actually only gotten better since they allowed for league specific items to be found\chanced in zana maps. No bribery is needed to encourage players to progress a longterm character or play in a league saturated with items.


GGG enables you to play the previous mods for a cost, the only one that is "too much" is the current league cost, but even then it should remain an exalt at min.


If you can't find a reason to play standard without some bullshit event or special mod going on, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing standard to begin with. Its goal from a design standpoint has remained the same throughout time, provide a place for characters to progress in the longterm.