Re-Rethinking Gold as a Currency

"

"Strill wrote:

Go read the dev diary. One of their stated goals is a lack of trade parity so that you can't ever know what anything is worth, and by extension, have no idea whether that Transmutation Orb is bringing you closer to an Alchemist Orb. For all you know, the guy who has the Alchemist Orb you want only wants Scrolls of Wisdom, and that Transmutation Orb is completely worthless to you. Price fluctuations are far less of an issue with gold as a currency.

It still has value. you can trade with someone else to get wha the Alchmeny orb owner wants or find a different alchemy owner or use it to trade for something else, and find the alchemy orb a different way. Your arguemnet for the Transmutation Orb having no value is not valid.

"

Baki wrote:

Yes this discussion is moot because your only argument is "becasue the devs do not want it" which is no argument at all.

thats the only thing that matters actually.. If you think the game would be better played as a FPS and could list a million reasons why it would be awesome, none of that matters, because the people who are making the game aren't making a FPS.

Similarly, the people making this game, don't want to use gold. So really, this entire thread is moot.

@Strill:

Any ethical framework has to be constructed around the idea that the members of that group are 'operating' correctly (how to define that is a matter of debate of course). Nobody bothers trying to work out what a crazy person would do in a certain situation... because they are crazy.

It would be like trying to come up with a definition of "beauty" that everyone could agree upon (I know, it isn't possible, but assume that isn't the case). If one of the particulars of that definition required the individual to be able to see or hear, then you wouldn't consider someone who is blind or deaf to be an example of that definitions failure, but rather that those individuals are exempt from the definition, because they do not possess the proper faculties that the definition would require.

In the same way, crazy people and what they may or may not do, are not "counter examples" to be used against any kind of ethical theory.

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

the people making this game don't want to use gold. So really, this entire thread is moot.

You can have a uniform currency without gold.
This thread is not moot, or is it somehow wrong to argue against the devs? Are they not just people like everyone else can can make mistakes and change their minds?

A thread will never be moot just because it disagrees with the devs.




You will see in a year that people will be primarily using only one of the orbs to trade with (just like IST became the primary currency of d2).

"

Sickness wrote:

You can have a uniform currency without gold.
This thread is not moot, or is it somehow wrong to argue against the devs? Are they not just people like everyone else can can make mistakes and change their minds?

A thread will never be moot just because it disagrees with the devs.

You will see in a year that people will be primarily using only one of the orbs to trade with (just like IST became the primary currency of d2).

A uniform currency whether it's Gold, Zenny, Mesos, Shells, Platinum, whatever you want to call it, still represents the same thing. Replace gold with uniform currency and all the arguments remain the same.

You're probably one of those people who think a 'one world currency' IRL would be fantastic, aren't you?

This thread isn't moot because it's wrong to challenge the dev's or that they can't change their minds. It's moot because they won't. Present this idea however you may want. It's not a groundbreaking new idea that dev's haven't already thought about. They've been working on this for almost 6 years. You really think that you're going to presuade them now? Now that their project is so close to fruition, you think they'll suddenly change their minds? I guarantee you they've weighed all the pros and cons of this decision and they came to the conclusion that this is the best idea for their vision.

And I STRONGLY disagree with your 'within a year' statement. I'm not saying every currency item will be in high demand, but with the right balancing between vendors and drop rates you will undoubtedly see several popular currencies being traded as they all have their own uses. To say, for example, Alchemy orbs will become the dominant currency is utterly ridiculous. People will still need Chaos to reroll the mods, they will still need fusing and chromatic and jewelers to get the best socket composition. Augementation and and Transform and Transmute will always be in demand for Flasks. D2 was heavily affected by cookie cutter builds and perfect gear for said builds, and THAT is why particular runes became the dominant currency. PoE, has a much more versatile skill and passive system and completely random loot. Comparing PoE to D2 is just stupid in that regard.

"

Sickness wrote:

You will see in a year that people will be primarily using only one of the orbs to trade with (just like IST became the primary currency of d2).

Just like it was SOJ's, just like it was HR's, etc... Having 1 median currency is fine, because everyone will still trade other currencies as well. This is exactly why Ists became a popular currency: they were of medium rarity, and were used very commonly as a basis for exchange rates above and below their own rarity. If Alchemy Orbs become the most commonly traded orbs, there's nothing wrong with that because it doesn't nullify the value of the other orbs.

Wittgenstein was using "gold" collectively to refer to any uniform currency, just as the entire thread has. The thread is moot because there are multiple threads spanning months before this one that say the exact same things. Other than the specific details of the system outlined in the OP, nothing has been said in this thread that hasn't already been said, especially in regards to economic theory and socio-economic practices. Beating a dead horse isn't going to change the devs' minds. They're very clear and adamant about their stance on currency.

"

Baki wrote:

Strill, do yourself a favor and stop it. This thread is a lost cause. There is nothing you can say to make people understand if they do not want to.

And after playing more of the current endgame content i have to say that this game has more urgent needs than a trade-friendly currency.

Some one on the internet disagrees with me so there must be something wrong with them.

There is no endgame content. It's my understanding that what is in place now is a place holder.

"

Sickness wrote:

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

the people making this game don't want to use gold. So really, this entire thread is moot.

You can have a uniform currency without gold.
This thread is not moot, or is it somehow wrong to argue against the devs? Are they not just people like everyone else can can make mistakes and change their minds?

A thread will never be moot just because it disagrees with the devs.




You will see in a year that people will be primarily using only one of the orbs to trade with (just like IST became the primary currency of d2).

So, not only will you get what you want anyway, but it will be a market solution. Everyone wins. YAY!

"

FaceLicker wrote:

A uniform currency whether it's Gold, Zenny, Mesos, Shells, Platinum, whatever you want to call it, still represents the same thing. Replace gold with uniform currency and all the arguments remain the same.

Every argument have been effortlessly refuted.

"

FaceLicker wrote:

You're probably one of those people who think a 'one world currency' IRL would be fantastic, aren't you?

Nope, the economies of the word ar far to different.
Did you not see my link in a previous post:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_currency_area

Why do you think the euro was created?
To increase economic efficiency!

PoE is the optimum currency area for 1 currency, not dozens.

"

FaceLicker wrote:

This thread isn't moot because it's wrong to challenge the dev's or that they can't change their minds. It's moot because they won't. Present this idea however you may want. It's not a groundbreaking new idea that dev's haven't already thought about. They've been working on this for almost 6 years. You really think that you're going to presuade them now? Now that their project is so close to fruition, you think they'll suddenly change their minds?

I think it's worth a shot.

"

FaceLicker wrote:

I guarantee you they've weighed all the pros and cons of this decision and they came to the conclusion that this is the best idea for their vision.

They are not perfect, no one is.

"

FaceLicker wrote:

And I STRONGLY disagree with your 'within a year' statement. I'm not saying every currency item will be in high demand, but with the right balancing between vendors and drop rates you will undoubtedly see several popular currencies being traded as they all have their own uses. To say, for example, Alchemy orbs will become the dominant currency is utterly ridiculous. People will still need Chaos to reroll the mods, they will still need fusing and chromatic and jewelers to get the best socket composition. Augementation and and Transform and Transmute will always be in demand for Flasks. D2 was heavily affected by cookie cutter builds and perfect gear for said builds, and THAT is why particular runes became the dominant currency. PoE, has a much more versatile skill and passive system and completely random loot. Comparing PoE to D2 is just stupid in that regard.

People will gravitate to one of the orbs when trading. Escpecially when trading items.
In D2 people needed every high rune but they were still valued in Ists because it made it much easier. It was a natural development on the market to simplify trading.

"

Epicurwin wrote:

So, not only will you get what you want anyway, but it will be a market solution. Everyone wins. YAY!

Why do you think it will happen?
Why should teh system not be designed after that in the first place?

"

WhiteBoy88 wrote:

Just like it was SOJ's, just like it was HR's, etc... Having 1 median currency is fine, because everyone will still trade other currencies as well. This is exactly why Ists became a popular currency: they were of medium rarity, and were used very commonly as a basis for exchange rates above and below their own rarity. If Alchemy Orbs become the most commonly traded orbs, there's nothing wrong with that because it doesn't nullify the value of the other orbs.

Why do you think people start using one item as currency even when there are so many different options availible?

That a uniform currency makes the market more efficient is a fact.
Why should they throw that out of the window in their market design?

It doesn't make any sense.

"

WhiteBoy88 wrote:

Beating a dead horse isn't going to change the devs' minds. They're very clear and adamant about their stance on currency.

Your description of the devs make them look stubborn and ignorant.
I am convinced that they aren't and that there is still hope for a uniform currency so this game can live up to it's potential.

The best way you can support the game is by being critical, not cheering at everything they do as you are.