Re-Rethinking Gold as a Currency

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Sickness wrote:

Then try to refute our arguments.

why bother, you will ignore them, restate your position...then ask for us to refute it again.

the same thing we are doing to you actually :D

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

We don't need another currency that's there just for the sake of being there to act as a bank note. We're dealing with a setting that doesn't have a government; it makes perfect sense that there is no standardized currency. People will trade in goods and services (orbs are potential services), not in a currency that exists for the sake of existing. Gold (or whatever you would call it) wouldn't have value other than the value we're told it has. It would be a fiat currency. You can't have a fiat currency without a governing agency that dictates its value.

That the setting has no goverment is irrelevant, there is no reason why you can't have a uniform currency just because you don't have a goverment.

It's not a fiat currency because it's directly redeemable in orbs! The value would be that of the orbs.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

So, add "gold" and be forced to add lore for why there is gold and why it's valuable when it has no use other than to be valuable, all for the sake of having a single currency that dilutes the game's social aspect by over-simplifying the bartering process. In the end, all it would accomplish is making some trades easier.

Again, it's not a fiat currency. It would be valuable because it's used to get (or create if you wish) magical orbs.

What you call "dilutes the game's social aspect" I call allowing the players to spend less time spamming in global chat and more time actually playing the game.


I also believe that it will make people trade alot more, and thus it's improving the social aspect.

It would make it easier to control inflation, it would make it easier to price things, it would make trading a much more smooth experience where you don't have to spend as much time finding someone who has what you need and need what you have, it would make it ALOT easier to add an automatic trading system.

There are many good reasons for this.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

It would also remove much of the excitement that comes from finding orbs. In comparing the two systems, I'd be far more excited about finding a Divine Orb over an Alchemy Orb than I would be about finding 8 gold over 1 gold. It's a boring system that brings nothing exciting to the game. We play the game to be entertained, not to be economically efficient.

That doesn't make any sense. If you know that you can get 1 divine orb for 8 gold and an alchemy orb for 1 gold then it's the same thing. Why is one boring, but the other one isn't?

An efficient market is important in a game that focuses alot on trading.
It adds alot of entertainment value to the game when you don't have to spam the global chat, waiting for the right person to read your forum post, or not having to be look for someone who specifically needs what you have and specifically have what you need.

Nothing will be taken away by this, people can still trade in whatever way they want.

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scorpitron wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

Then try to refute our arguments.

why bother, you will ignore them, restate your position...then ask for us to refute it again.

the same thing we are doing to you actually :D

Yes you are ignoring us, but we are not dong the same to you.

The most common argument from your side is: "what the devs said!!1!"
But you fail to realise that the devs have said absolutely nothing about this. When they were talking about gold they did not think of it in this way.


It really makes me wonder if you people even read the OP or just used an automatic response to bash anyone who suggests a uniform currency.

Here's something directly related to the OP and Post 7.

Do you propose to have gold drop in stacks? All items in PoE drop one at a time. If you insist on creating value ratios, which are a direct opposition to the direction in which this game is trying to go, then you run into a problem with your 1:1 drop ratio.

Currently: 1 random drop = 1 currency(I'm not talking value, I'm talking drop rate)

So: 1 drop = 1 chaos = 1 alchemy = 1 gqu = etc.
If: 1 Divine = 8 Gold, 1 Alchemy = 1 Gold and 1 drop = 1 currency, then 1 Divine = 8 drops while 1 Alchemy = 1 drop.

That is not balance. The OP suggests replacing all currency drops with gold, and clearly this does not work, without restructuring the currency system. The Dev's want to make each currency roughly equal in terms of value(practically impossible, but that's what they want to do). By nixing orb drops in favor of a uniform currency, you're destroying the drop rate balance and the very premise of player defined values based on personal need.

As Whiteboy said, adding a extra layer for the sake of adding an extra layer is useless. We don't need a middleman for the sake of making some transactions easier.

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The most common argument from your side is: "what the devs said!!1!"

wrong, this is a 10 page thread now and its not the only one we have had, there are many arguments against in here you just don't feel they are valid so you are ignoring them. no i am not going to provide them you can re-read it yourself although it would be a waste of time. in fact one post up facelicker has yet another specific one :)

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But you fail to realise that the devs have said absolutely nothing about this. When they were talking about gold they did not think of it in this way.

you honestly believe this? that the devs have not considered what the OP has proposed? you seriously believe that the devs built a whole game around the current system, with millions of dollars of funding on the line...and didn't honestly brainstorm every possible alternative? its possible i suppose, but i like the current system so i have no reason to accuse them of not considering this thread's OP

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It really makes me wonder if you people even read the OP or just used an automatic response to bash anyone who suggests a uniform currency.

we read it, and we reject the idea. was quite easy actually.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

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Baki wrote:

Gold is only a middleman between orbs and you. Gold is the only way to get orbs and therefore it is equivalent to orbs.

This is why I think it's an unnecessary change. It adds a middleman, an extra layer to the system that serves only to add an extra layer to the system.

We don't need another currency that's there just for the sake of being there to act as a bank note. We're dealing with a setting that doesn't have a government; it makes perfect sense that there is no standardized currency. People will trade in goods and services (orbs are potential services), not in a currency that exists for the sake of existing. Gold (or whatever you would call it) wouldn't have value other than the value we're told it has. It would be a fiat currency. You can't have a fiat currency without a governing agency that dictates its value.

So, add "gold" and be forced to add lore for why there is gold and why it's valuable when it has no use other than to be valuable, all for the sake of having a single currency that dilutes the game's social aspect by over-simplifying the bartering process. In the end, all it would accomplish is making some trades easier. It would also remove much of the excitement that comes from finding orbs. In comparing the two systems, I'd be far more excited about finding a Divine Orb over an Alchemy Orb than I would be about finding 8 gold over 1 gold. It's a boring system that brings nothing exciting to the game. We play the game to be entertained, not to be economically efficient.

You keep harping about this "social aspect" Tell me when the last time was that you enjoyed spamming chat and rejecting a bunch of offers because the stuff offered was valuable but not exactly what you wanted.

Gold exists because it makes trading faster and easier. Instead of having to sit around waiting for someone who both wants exactly what you want and has exactly what you have, you can just sell to someone who wants what you have and buy from someone else who has what you want. Gold expands your potential trading partners, making it faster and easier to complete trades.

Also, please go back to economics class. Governments can't "dictate" jack. Supply and demand determine the value of goods, fiat currency included. In real life, the supply of fiat currency is determined by money getting printed. In the game, the supply of fiat currency is determined by its drop rates.

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Strill wrote:

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

You can't have a fiat currency without a governing agency that dictates its value

.Governments can't "dictate" jack. Supply and demand determine the value of goods, fiat currency included. In real life, the supply of fiat currency is determined by money getting printed. In the game, the supply of fiat currency is determined by its drop rates.

Big difference between 'Governments' and 'governing agency'.

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FaceLicker wrote:

Here's something directly related to the OP and Post 7.

Do you propose to have gold drop in stacks? All items in PoE drop one at a time. If you insist on creating value ratios, which are a direct opposition to the direction in which this game is trying to go, then you run into a problem with your 1:1 drop ratio.

Currently: 1 random drop = 1 currency(I'm not talking value, I'm talking drop rate)

So: 1 drop = 1 chaos = 1 alchemy = 1 gqu = etc.
If: 1 Divine = 8 Gold, 1 Alchemy = 1 Gold and 1 drop = 1 currency, then 1 Divine = 8 drops while 1 Alchemy = 1 drop.

That is not balance. The OP suggests replacing all currency drops with gold, and clearly this does not work, without restructuring the currency system. The Dev's want to make each currency roughly equal in terms of value(practically impossible, but that's what they want to do). By nixing orb drops in favor of a uniform currency, you're destroying the drop rate balance and the very premise of player defined values based on personal need.

As Whiteboy said, adding a extra layer for the sake of adding an extra layer is useless. We don't need a middleman for the sake of making some transactions easier.

The devs absolutely do not want to make each currency equally valuable. They've specifically said so in their dev diary post. They want to have currency items with a wide variety of values.

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FaceLicker wrote:

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Strill wrote:

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

You can't have a fiat currency without a governing agency that dictates its value

.Governments can't "dictate" jack. Supply and demand determine the value of goods, fiat currency included. In real life, the supply of fiat currency is determined by money getting printed. In the game, the supply of fiat currency is determined by its drop rates.

Big difference between 'Governments' and 'governing agency'.

No there is not. It's trivial semantics. It doesn't matter whether I say "US Government" or "US Department of the Treasury", people understand that I'm talking about the same thing.

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Strill wrote:

The devs absolutely do not want to make each currency equally valuable. They've specifically said so in their dev diary post. They want to have currency items with a wide variety of values.

Allow me some time and I'll find a direct quote confirming my statement. I came across it earlier today actually.

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Strill wrote:

No there is not. It's trivial semantics. It doesn't matter whether I say "US Government" or "US Department of the Treasury", people understand that I'm talking about the same thing.

The Federal Reserve is the governing agency over our particular fiat currency. Federal Reserve =/= the Government. How is that understood to be the same?

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FaceLicker wrote:

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Strill wrote:

The devs absolutely do not want to make each currency equally valuable. They've specifically said so in their dev diary post. They want to have currency items with a wide variety of values.

Allow me some time and I'll find a direct quote confirming my statement. I came across it earlier today actually.

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Some of them are relatively common – you’ll probably find at least one per half hour of playing. Others are rarer, taking potentially days of gameplay to find, if you’re lucky. A few are so valuable that casual players may never find them, but only hear of them in high-end trades.

http://www.pathofexile.com/news/2011-02-08/dev-diary-currency

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Strill wrote:

No there is not. It's trivial semantics. It doesn't matter whether I say "US Government" or "US Department of the Treasury", people understand that I'm talking about the same thing.

The Federal Reserve is the governing agency over our particular fiat currency. Federal Reserve =/= the Government. How is that understood to be the same?

Quit derailing the thread. There's something with control over the supply of money. Whether some bureaucrat classifies it as part of the US government is irrelevant.