Is this the end of POE?

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Bars wrote:

This has nothing to do with the released new content. GGG regularly releases overtuned new content and then adjusts it, it's nothing new and I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the sweeping changes of existing skills and items, the global buff to monster power and the various map drop nerfs: the changes to existing content. The new stuff they releazed with act 4 was jut a drop in the ocean. I apologize if my point wasn't conveyed clearly enough - I tried.

Maps are new content. Balancing changes are new content.

I point out that power creep doesn't just happen at end game, it happen everywhere in the game. People just don't recognize it. Changing existing skills and items, doesn't mean it isn't new content. All of these balancing changes are new content.

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

No, it's not. There are some pretty crazy things coming. And these things will almost certainly keep some people playing. Bring others back. Force others to leave. All three are events evident of something that has not in actuality ended.

But I think you're being rhetorical, robertredberry, and going by past threads you've instigated and past attitudes I've observed, I do believe it's the end of *your time* with PoE.

I strongly recommend not confusing the end of something with the end of your participation in it. Strongly.

Wowowow HYPE

Another cool awesome temp league for the perm leaguers to enjoy?

Another 12,934 trash uniques?

Another 23 nerfs of OPOP builds such as anything-crit and low life?

Another 2 super duper high level super hard challenging maps with .000000000001 drop rate for end game?

Another 30 super exciting gems with multi rainbow colors and special effects that tickle monsters?

Another super hard Uber boss that only certain non-cheesy, unused and expensive skills like PA and discharge can do?

CAN'T WAIT

Haha you have just written the whole history of poe :)) but u got the point !

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deathflower wrote:

Keyword Increase grind. I never say grind doesn't exist. You can complete the campaign without much grinding. LOD and the later patches take Grinding to a whole new level.

I think it is when you purposely look it up and point it out and state hardcore is better. People can have different perceptive. I like a relaxed causal environment when I am playing. You are playing a game, not fighting for your life. Technically it is the same without your adrenaline rush. There is nothing you can't do in standard that you can in hardcore. It is just your ego getting in the way. I don't see how hardcore death is meaningful and exciting either. Go do something meaningful and exciting IRL, not a video game.


You need better reading comprehension. I say "permanency is against the spirit of roguelike". It is possible to avoid death totally with grinding, overleveling and overgearing. Let's not forgot Alt+F4. This game allow you to avoid death. Allowing permanency is counter intuitive to a hardcore mode. It mean Hardcore in POE is too kiddie glove, it meant to allow you to live.

What are you even on about man? Your whole point about grind was that Blizzard made grinding changes due to player behavior like two posts ago and use LOD as a leverage for that argument. I never claimed you said grind didn't exist once.

As for you being offended when you shouldn't, its simply your perspective on it. I never once said hardcore was better, please do highlight and quote me where I said that. You make a topic with a broad covering title "the end of poe" and expect all the input directed only for one game mode? I find enjoyment in the game and you don't have to if you don't want to. That's the point of games, you choose to play them for your own fun if you want. You're measuring softcore and hardcore too literally and taking it too far with your personal comments.

My comprehension is entirely fine, your recall of things that never happened is very apparent however. Go ahead and play hardcore with your philosophy in your fists. This game is different from a lot of games that exist, the genre maybe be similar, but POE is very little micro and a lot of macro. Knowledge takes you leaps and bounds over just clicking furiously. "the game is meant to allow you to live" I have not heard a more ludicrous statement made about POE since people said D3 was better back when it was trash garbage pay to win.

I challenge you to run through normal, cruel and merciless without bothering to use knowledge about the game or grinding in hardcore (you can use as much raw mechanics as you want). Just wear that philosophy of what you think hardcore should be for you personally as your protection from the mobs and bosses. I'm serious, this isn't even meant as mocking of you. I will admit everything I've said entirely rubbish if you can manage that.

P.S. there is something you can do in hc that you can't in sc and that is dying only once by limitation of the game. That's the allure of it.

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Arrowneous wrote:

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I am not surprised at all that this deteriorated into a steam-chart measuring contest lol

Great job guys

Ok then, do you have any better (more accurate way) of knowing what the daily player numbers are? You won't ever get this kind of info from GGG.

You can view the progression of the 15000th spot on the ladders to see how active a league is.

@Bars isn't it a common notion that HC players are drawn to challenge and that this 1-month is sort of an epitome of such a thing? Wouldn't be amazed at all if most HC players are playing in that league or recharging their PoE battery after having played it a bit, it's a stressful league the flashback one.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

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Arrowneous wrote:

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I am not surprised at all that this deteriorated into a steam-chart measuring contest lol

Great job guys

Ok then, do you have any better (more accurate way) of knowing what the daily player numbers are? You won't ever get this kind of info from GGG.

You can view the progression of the 15000th spot on the ladders to see how active a league is.

@Bars isn't it a common notion that HC players are drawn to challenge and that this 1-month is sort of an epitome of such a thing? Wouldn't be amazed at all if most HC players are playing in that league or recharging their PoE battery after having played it a bit, it's a stressful league the flashback one.

Peace,

-Boem-

As far as I know, HC players aren't all fans of the one-month flashbacks. I softcored the previous flashback and haven't played in the most recent one. I have a buddy who only plays HC and has ripped more characters than I've ever created who said the one-month flashback was too tough for him, so I guess there is such a thing as too much of a challenge.

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Bars wrote:

As far as I know, HC players aren't all fans of the one-month flashbacks. I softcored the previous flashback and haven't played in the most recent one. I have a buddy who only plays HC and has ripped more characters than I've ever created who said the one-month flashback was too tough for him, so I guess there is such a thing as too much of a challenge.

I can vouch for this as well, I love hardcore, but this one month wasn't really anything "new". I ran softcore because I only cared about getting the freebie mtx, and the easiest way would be to have zero penalty for death.

Invasion was an awful experience (just really imbalanced), and Beyond wasn't as bad but not my favorite either back when they were their own leagues. So the flashback has about as much appeal as a sandwich full of nails.

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention, but I also didn't play hardcore for flashback because it was only 1 month long. Its just too short to even get good enjoyment out of it for me.

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Boem wrote:

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Arrowneous wrote:

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I am not surprised at all that this deteriorated into a steam-chart measuring contest lol

Great job guys

Ok then, do you have any better (more accurate way) of knowing what the daily player numbers are? You won't ever get this kind of info from GGG.

You can view the progression of the 15000th spot on the ladders to see how active a league is.

@Bars isn't it a common notion that HC players are drawn to challenge and that this 1-month is sort of an epitome of such a thing? Wouldn't be amazed at all if most HC players are playing in that league or recharging their PoE battery after having played it a bit, it's a stressful league the flashback one.

Peace,

-Boem-

Ofcourse you cant do that. That has nothing at all to do with how many ppl actually play the game right now. Unless your totally trolling, how did you come to that conclusion?

Partially why i wrote "they are either playing that, or taking a hiatus" it is a very stressful league in a hc setting for sure.

And it can and will wear you down eventually in my opinion.

Next 1-month should alleviate this a bit and be rather chill in comparison so i expect a lot more hc participation for it.

Permanent hc has always been something weird though, i know some people enjoy it, but i think that's a minority for sure. Usually the league hc players go fidle a bit there in between events, but that is not the case now so i imagine it is incredibly slow market wise.(normally a new influx of gear happens with people actually participating in moving it around)

Peace,

-Boem-

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Bars wrote:

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Arrowneous wrote:

By all means do give us dry carcasm instead of useful statistics. Or maybe we should all take our cue from Monty Python and all pretend that "it's not happening!" as the PoE ship sinks (or is it Wraeclast that's sinking?). Either way it's not good.

I think I provided a specific and factual piece of information which you chose to discard because you don't play in the same server. Normal HC currently is barely functioning and is in much worse shape than I have ever seen it. The difference is qualitative. So, for the time being, the only server I would choose to play in, if I play at all, is in deep coma.

Is the game dying for you in SC? Perhaps not. It is dying for me, at that time, in the server I play. I've no doubt things will pick up with the next 3-month leagues, but it is highly concerning. Not to mention that the 2% statistic applies to periods when there are active temp leagues and most HC players are in the temp league. Right now there is no such thing.

I don't play HC either as permanent death is not my "fun-to-play" way to play PoE. Many like the added adrenalin rush from always knowing that one wrong move or one Internet laggy moment can cause death but that's too stressful for me. So the SC leagues are it (so I can privately bitch when I die in Merciless and lose xp... "but I pressed the movement key and the damn PoE server didn't acknowledge it... FU GGG!". Come on now, we've all experienced this many times... and I won't re-open PoE: The Desync Years. Glad that's in my PoE playing rear view mirror.)

PoE isn't dead for me at all, even though I'm not wanting an elite masochist type PoE and no Whimseyshire version either I'm still not a quitter even with Act 4 damage spikes. Original PoE v2.0 made me come close and Malachai battle still pisses me off as the blood gore effects hides the death dangers too much (GGG, we need better color differentiation to see the real death dealing dangers from the other special effects and a larger arena for better kiting... think Grand Arena size). Since even the hosts of the "State of Exile" podcast have commented to Chris that the Malachai final battle colors are way too similar I'm surprised GGG hasn't done anything about that yet.

Problems that have been long standing and massively talked about here are slowly building up until it's "the straw that broke the camels back" scenario and players drop out (as seen by lower numbers in the Steam Charts). GGG thinks that individual small problems are not important enough to address but with enough of them then collectively they are causing PoE to become "not fun to play" for many and more and more are quitting.

Since there is always new entertainment software to take us away from PoE (such as Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns) GGG cannot be expecting us to put up with quality of play problems forever as they churn out new content with new problems and don't fix existing problems that ruin "fun to play".

Hey. I don't know why I quoted you, I intended to quote Barivius:

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Barivius wrote:

I play in leagues. You are playing on a server where 2% of the population plays at its height, and I don't doubt it is going down. Then you add in a trough period and voila you have 100 people playing.

The almighty steam charts that people use to proclaim the game is dead, have more people playing than this time last year. It's not just an observation. It's fact.

So, if you were wondering why I sounded argumentative while not saying much to disagree with you, I was arguing with another player :)

We actually seem to be of the same opinion.