Is this the end of POE?

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StumpyJoe wrote:

As for your Diablo II comment, it would be just outright wrong to say nobody grinded before LoD. If you played classic HC you were forced to grind, even softcore did. People did it for loot not because they "love the game so much they grind it".

Reread my comment. I never say people didn't grind, I say People did grind, alot. People play so much that LOD and the later patches was designed around this grinding.

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deathflower wrote:

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StumpyJoe wrote:

As for your Diablo II comment, it would be just outright wrong to say nobody grinded before LoD. If you played classic HC you were forced to grind, even softcore did. People did it for loot not because they "love the game so much they grind it".

Reread my comment. I never say people didn't grind, I say People did grind, alot. People play so much that LOD and the later patches was designed around this grinding.

Fine, but the game wasn't designed around the player behavior. The drop rate system was inherent to the game. Grinding was a product of how the drop rate system worked.

Also not to point fingers, but I notice you play standard. That's fine, but honestly that gets very boring very quickly when there is no penalty for death. I used to play softcore early on in Diablo II and early on in Path of Exile, but when I tried hardcore for each I found myself really enjoying the thrill of near death experiences.

It just amps the game's enjoyment that much more. Sure there's similar issues that you face between hc and sc, but truly how bad is death in sc? My entire mindset is different playing there knowing I lose nothing, D2 took gold and exp, but PoE can only take exp which is a joke at getting back especially now.

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Perq wrote:

Is it 2015? Are there still people who doesn't know how to map?

I mean, guys, really, there has been like 2 or 3 buffs, one after another, to the average map level, map drop rate and whatnot. What do you want to happen? 82 maps rain upon you?
Also, you don't need to get level 100 to be complete. If you want to, sure, but this will MASSIVE grind. Not every single player should be able to do it, because if every player could do it, it wouldn't be any achievement at all.

Mapping is fine. to be honest, mapping WAS fine, but there were so many not-so-good players complaining over and over again, how they can't sustain max level maps, that GGG buffed it a little. And before that... yeah, mapping WAS FINE.
So seeing that there are still people who can't get around mapping, I guess even 10 more buffs won't make some people happy.

Well you could try to be a little more considerate in the sense that there are new players entering with each notable content update. Even still, the game rewards party use far more for mapping compared to solo self found.

Is that wrong of GGG? No, but it does cause some anti-fun when people are crapping out tier 13-15 maps with full parties (support/culler/mfer included).

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Perq wrote:

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Kellog wrote:

I believe the game is far from dead but it does need a radical shake-up. For me, the most glaring area in need of change is the way content is delivered and to some extent, the content itself.

Right now we have:

1. Here's the content, go run it.
.
.
.
2. Then run it again
3. and again
4. Then you can do theses crazy things called maps. At useful levels they're stupidly expansive to run and maintain and you won't get much back by way of reward. However, if you keep running the same few maps over and over and over and over again you might reach level 100! In the mean time we'll be doing everything we can to make that possibility as difficult as possible.

I'm not sure what the answer is but there must be some way to break-up the linearity as well as the need to run the same areas over and over and over again.

Is it 2015? Are there still people who doesn't know how to map?

I mean, guys, really, there has been like 2 or 3 buffs, one after another, to the average map level, map drop rate and whatnot. What do you want to happen? 82 maps rain upon you?
Also, you don't need to get level 100 to be complete. If you want to, sure, but this will MASSIVE grind. Not every single player should be able to do it, because if every player could do it, it wouldn't be any achievement at all.

Mapping is fine. to be honest, mapping WAS fine, but there were so many not-so-lucky players complaining over and over again, how they can't sustain max level maps, that GGG buffed it a little. And before that... yeah, mapping WAS FINE.
So seeing that there are still people who can't get around mapping, I guess even 10 more buffs won't make some people happy.

But I sure agree about the way content is delivered - not in the way of maps, but in the way of challenge leagues. :-V

@GooberM
Trove? You mean, Minecraft? ;=D

FTFY. :)

Just for clarity, I wasn't complaining about maps, just presenting how the game looks from one perspective.

By the by, this flashback league the best map I've had to date is t7, just one. I've not had a single +2 and I've only had a handful of t6. I'm currently level 85. RNG!

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Perq wrote:

@GooberM
Trove? You mean, Minecraft? ;=D

I prefer it to Minecraft, a lot. I'm not much on building stuff.

The economy aspect of the game is great. There's a FUCK ton of stuff to collect/mine/sell. It's a really fun game to play economy in. The combat is a little dry, though.

It was a fun 2 weeks.

Hopefully not

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StumpyJoe wrote:

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deathflower wrote:

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StumpyJoe wrote:

As for your Diablo II comment, it would be just outright wrong to say nobody grinded before LoD. If you played classic HC you were forced to grind, even softcore did. People did it for loot not because they "love the game so much they grind it".

Reread my comment. I never say people didn't grind, I say People did grind, alot. People play so much that LOD and the later patches was designed around this grinding.

Fine, but the game wasn't designed around the player behavior. The drop rate system was inherent to the game. Grinding was a product of how the drop rate system worked.

Also not to point fingers, but I notice you play standard. That's fine, but honestly that gets very boring very quickly when there is no penalty for death. I used to play softcore early on in Diablo II and early on in Path of Exile, but when I tried hardcore for each I found myself really enjoying the thrill of near death experiences.

It just amps the game's enjoyment that much more. Sure there's similar issues that you face between hc and sc, but truly how bad is death in sc? My entire mindset is different playing there knowing I lose nothing, D2 took gold and exp, but PoE can only take exp which is a joke at getting back especially now.

What did LOD and later patches add? More difficult content, Check. More LOot, check. The need for those loot to combat the increase difficulty, check. Lower drop rate for those loot, check. Increase grind, Check.

Being judgmental now? I just like to point out people can have multiple accounts. But you are right, I really don't play on hardcore. I don't see the point when they removed permanent death, you just move to softcore which I think is pretty corny.

I think permanency is against the spirit of roguelike. Overleveling and Overgearing in HC to avoid death, is pretty much what grinding is all about. People are seeking permanency in a game mode which supposingly isn't, which is counter intuitive. But that is beside the point.

Another apocalyptic thread? lmao

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AntonChigur wrote:

stop trolling, this game isn't going anywhere. The game is great and has great developers. I've never stuck with a game this long in my life and most games that I play for a really long time I end up getting mad at, not this one though.

+1

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deathflower wrote:

What did LOD and later patches add? More difficult content, Check. More LOot, check. The need for those loot to combat the increase difficulty, check. Lower drop rate for those loot, check. Increase grind, Check.

Being judgmental now? I just like to point out people can have multiple accounts. But you are right, I really don't play on hardcore. I don't see the point when they removed permanent death, you just move to softcore which I think is pretty corny.

I think permanency is against the spirit of roguelike. Overleveling and Overgearing in HC to avoid death, is pretty much what grinding is all about. People are seeking permanency in a game mode which supposingly isn't, which is counter intuitive. But that is beside the point.

The content being difficult has no bearing upon the fact the game has always been a grind to clear the content in the first place. LOD only made it that much harder, balance changes after the fact are not the same thing as stating the grind system was developed based on player behavior.

Its not judgmental to state a fact about what a player chooses in a game, its why I said I used to play it, I think you're reading my posts with a tone that isn't meant to be there. Aside from that, my point about softcore remains as it eventually becomes boring due to the fact you cannot die and therefore will eventually try all builds, get all items you wanted, etc. Hardcore puts not just extra steps for grinding, but gives you goals that are different from softcore.

As for saying grinding being counter intuitive in hardcore, its just silly to say it. People don't play hardcore looking to die, they play it because of the possibility of a permanent death. Its rewarding to some when they can survive difficult content knowing the fact they never once died. Its more than just grinding, like softcore, you need a lot of knowledge about the game to understand how to actually progress.