Why don’t we remove trading altogether?

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FadeXF wrote:

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ImmaPokemon wrote:

I cant believe he compared desync which was being worked on as it was a problem to something entirely different.

I know right? Sheesh - obviously everyone is perfectly happy getting their drops algorithms based purely on the fact that you must trade in order to get ahead. Sheeeesh - I mean: obviously!

Not everyone, but GGG is. And they were never happy with desync, that's why the comparison is bad.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

This topic has been hashed and rehashed until it should be a banned topic. They're not going to make their game easier so that people can play solo and have the rewards come at the same rate that traders currently see. Period. End of story.

If you want to play solo... great! Live with the scarcity and enjoy it. I do.

If you want to trade... great! You'll make the game far easier, and if that's your thing, great!

But quit wanting to change the game so that you can have it easy and fun... the two are contradictory. You would ruin the game you love.

No. We will post problems this game has. And no one should ban something because you think it should. GGG talked a lot of shit in past from crap like that dota style of net code will not work at all in games like this to the fact they are implementing things like masters, and divination cards. So they know the game has problems with self found players, other ways they would not implement this changes at all to try improve it a little.


We will be posting about this problem as it is a problem that is a fact. Its not a surprise this topic pops up so often on PoE, very similar to desync problem. And you can post and disagree here, but dont post something like ban this or that, because better not post at all if that is what you gonna say.

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Huge no vote to remove trading. It's actually a pretty silly request.


However... the more reasonable request here would be to create a permanent self found league for those of us who want to play in one.

You know why most people would play in a selffound league with higher droprate if it existed?
It's demotivating the others players to know that others can achieve more things in less time. No one likes that feeling.

I'm hugely against everything that separates the community. They cannot create a league for everyone who does not like the current design of the game. That's why I hope there never actually will be paid leagues.

All you want is increased numbers. That's what Blizzard does, but GGG is, most time, more creative.

I actually found Loot 2.0 patch with Blizzard to have been highly creative and functional.

Listen: I've already addressed the whole "if you don't like it, go to D3" debacle - I've already stated that by you saying that, or suggesting it, all you are doing is being passive aggressive and demeaning. It's doing nothing at all for your view point, and all I hear when you say that is: "Fade: shut the f up, I don't give a flying f your opinion, in fact: get out of POE right now, and let that door hit you in the ass on the way out" = "go play D3 if you want self found." - I would honestly have huge respect for you if you actually came out and showed your true colors here when you say it.

Telling someone to f off just on the basis of a suggestion is pretty silly in my opinion. It shows a lack of respect, and frankly a pretty weak individual. If you don't want to discuss the merits of having a self found league in POE, then don't! If you've run out of material and all you have left is: "go play D3" then honestly guys? Just don't type! You are doing absolutely nothing here to further your side of the discussion and all it shows is that you are completely out... like dibs out... of the discussion.

What you claim, is wrong. You are lying. I never told you to get out. I just pointed out that the things you want are similar to what Blizzard does. Instead of pointing things out, you act like you were a victim or anything. You're not. I'm not. I tried to be polite, but not everyone not sharing your opinion is automatically acting like ****.

"My true color"? Are u serious? I ALWAYS try to understand everyone and to make constructive discussions without being offensive. And I wasn't.

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I actually found Loot 2.0 patch with Blizzard to have been highly creative and functional.

You keep mentioning Diablo 3. It's the same genre, comparisons are legitimate, I suppose.

By the way, we all understood what you want, now tell us how it affects the game in a good way instead of just claiming the same over and over again.

You never answer to the points someone makes. I told you that you want to change the game in a fundamental way, so that its vision would be completely changed. The vision you have is more like another game.

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FadeXF wrote:

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darkmatch wrote:

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I actually found Loot 2.0 patch with Blizzard to have been highly creative and functional.

You keep mentioning Diablo 3. It's the same genre, comparisons are legitimate, I suppose.

By the way, we all understood what you want, now tell us how it affects the game in a good way instead of just claiming the same over and over again.

I've already said it throughout this thread but here you go again:

Trading in POE is extremely painful and time consuming including the need to micro manage a thread on a forum, using 3rd party sites and software, spamming channels, being forced into a choice between being stuck at your stash (because linking is broken) or doing what you actually want to be doing which is hunting monsters and killing them.

Given that trading gives you such a vast boost in this game, I believe those who self find are at a huge disadvantage. It's not fun to trade, but it's also not fun to need to invest about 500% more time in to the game to be as successful at it to someone who is trading to get their gear.

Having a balanced option in a version of a new permanent self found league - away from any economies - with some form of boosted drops either in the form of some "POE Loot 2.0" where GGG bases drops around the skill gems you use and your skill tree - or - if they cannot spread development, then just opening up drop rates more in that specific league.

IF: they fix drop ratios and trading that may fix all my current grievances I have with the game.

I agree with you. Trading is time consuming and I myself, don't really like it. I like killing monsters more and never put much effort into Trading.
But it's normal that players that prefer to play alone have a disadvantage, it's the nature of an economy. By having the ability to sell something you DO NOT like, you can instead buy something YOU DO like. This way, you generally will have a better gear than someone who refuses to trade completely.

I understand why you want increased drop rates, but for some players the game would lose it's allure because they like to have a big goal they can play towards to.
GGG shouldn't make a league for everyone who disagrees with some design decisions they make. It would separate the community and in this case, make players feel bad if they don't play in an increased drop rate league because no one likes this feeling.

Just to mention it again: Selffound will be improved a lot with Divination Cards being out. We can influence the items we find. This way, we can get more items that actually match the build we play - without trading. I would recommend to wait for their release (2.0 stable) and see how much that improved everything in general.
GGG did exactly what I said previously: They didn't increase numbers, they build a completely new system.

I'd rather GGG put their time, effort, and resources towards improving the game as is rather than basically creating an entire new game to appease a crowd of people who disagree with how GGG made their game and the mechanics within.

I suppose vendor recipes, gems from vendors, master crafting and divination cards simply weren't enough.

It's the path GGG has chosen and many of us like.
They won't separate the community.

I'm certain there are even more things in PoE someone doesn't like. He could ask for a league with own rules too. Do you see the problem here?

GGG announced paid Leagues a while ago for exactly that reason and I'm strongly against it.
They would get money for separating us and would basically sell their vision.

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darkmatch wrote:

It's the path GGG has chosen and many of us like.
They won't separate the community.

I'm certain there are even more things in PoE someone doesn't like. He could ask for a league with own rules too. Do you see the problem here?

GGG announced paid Leagues a while ago for exactly that reason and I'm strongly against it.
They would get money for separating us and would basically sell their vision.

I'm in two minds - I see paid leagues as being a viable option during breaks between leagues for example. It gives another option for players who don't want to be tied to the permanent leagues, and would offer the chance for short term league rule sets that could then be a little more "insane" because they don't have a lot of long term repercussions.

Personally, I would prefer to group with a few hundred other players and plunk down $50 for a 1 or 2 month league with stupid mods and rule sets than stagnate in Standard. I have NOTHING against the Perm leagues (please don't think I do), but it doesn't suit my play style - I much prefer the challenge/achievement based gameplay of the temporary leagues, and am willing to pay cold hard cash money-bits for the opportunity to play this way in between the set league rotations.

Would I pay for a no-trading/self found league? No, not specifically. But most paid leagues would probably have a small number of people participating so it would kind of head down that route anyways. Not likely to be a lot of wealth in a league that only has a couple of hundred people in it :)

The problem I see with a SFL is that it is generally a long term commitment, and a lot of proponents seem to desire a permanent league. Their contribution (in general) to the economy is currently somewhat limited, so would their presence be missed? Probably not really, so the danger of "splitting the playerbase" may not be terribly valid.

However, there is not a consistent voice among those pushing for a SFL as to whether there needs to be modification of drop rates, whether it should be solo/non-party, whether recipes should be tuned etc. With so many different options and ideas, I doubt GGG would be able to put something together that would satisfy the majority, and that simply opens up the possibility that part of that sector of the community would start pushing for another league to more suit their personal vision.

I would suggest that, if the SFL idea is to truly get some steam going, there needs to be a general consensus from those interested in how the league should look. That is where posts such as the OP are vital for starting that conversation.

Ha! Another pre-coffee rant.

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darkmatch wrote:

You know why most people would play in a selffound league with higher droprate if it existed?
It's demotivating the others players to know that others can achieve more things in less time. No one likes that feeling.

What you fail to see, is that no matter how much they increase the drop rate in a self found league, trading will always "get you there" faster. Every single human being on the planet with the right amount of chromosomes is able to farm Dominus for the chaos recipe enough times to buy a Shavs. But a lot of us plays video games for fun, and do not - at all - see the fun part in trading. Does that mean I want it to rain Shavs? Not at all. I'm OK with not getting a Shav in a year. In two years. Hell, I'm OK with never having a Shav. I played D2 for 10 years, still missing a lot of uniques.

What drives me, is the amount of quality rares dropping and the amount of crafting orbs dropping. If you play self found, you will "NEVER" get enough orbs to craft a decent weapon (exalteds/eternal) and you wil "NEVER" see a top tier rare drop. The feeling of progression just isn't what it's "supposed" to be playing self found.

And no... I do not want it to rain orbs. I do not want it to be as easy as farming Dominus 24/7 to get enough orbs to buy a Shav. As you see, I'm prepared to farm for months/years. Thousands of hours. But as it sits now, that just isn't enough. And THAT'S the sad part.

And again, no matter if we multiply the drop rates with 1000, a self found player will never "achieve more" than a trader.

Damn this thread blew up.. Now i dunno if i wanna read 20 pages of this ;-;