Skill tree: Easy way to move passive points

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goetzjam wrote:

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"Despite" that, I believe it would be a good change. This would be a very interesting use of respec points : making the build viable earlier, and then being able to switch to perfect optimization. What should respec points be used for, if not for this kind of stuff (and, obviously, correcting mistakes)?

That is what they are there for, but the cost factor is also there well to make players think about it before just pathing however.

The other way to look at it is if GGG were to do what OP is suggesting would they not have to balance the content around people specifically being more "efficient" with tree pathing. Basically nullifying the whole idea that a build would somehow become more viable earlier?

Again I did a simple 60 or so skill point variation, if I were to do a level 80-85 the amount of points needed to save to reallocated to relink would be much higher. I think people that want to play or level in a different way should pay the price to do so.

I guess no one else remembers back in the day when everyone was scion, went spectral throw and respec into what they wanted later, essentially what this free to change your path (i know 1:1 with regrets will still be there) will do is make people level as something else and switch later and pay a cheaper cost to do so. You aren't creating more viable leveling options with a change like this technically you are reducing it because you are reducing the cost associate with larger changes.

My option was a cold aoe build in both cases and it saved 5 points, imagine what changing a whole playstyle could save you.

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mark1030 wrote:

Wispo, that's because they designed balance with travel nodes in mind. They could eliminate all the travel nodes like you say, but then they'd only give you like 45 points to allocate (since they only want builds to have a certain amount of good nodes).

Mate, if from a travel point "borns" that lovely "line" that leads to a cluster... ok
Those that i hate, are the tax points posed in the middle of nowhere, without any cluster or notable borning from them, and posed there only for wasting you a point.
Using your mindset, this would mean that they must give us at least 130 points total, because there are always a ten points wasted per exile

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Wispo wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

Wispo, that's because they designed balance with travel nodes in mind. They could eliminate all the travel nodes like you say, but then they'd only give you like 45 points to allocate (since they only want builds to have a certain amount of good nodes).

Mate, if from a travel point "borns" that lovely "line" that leads to a cluster... ok
Those that i hate, are the tax points posed in the middle of nowhere, without any cluster or notable borning from them, and posed there only for wasting you a point.
Using your mindset, this would mean that they must give us at least 130 points total, because there are always a ten points wasted per exile

It's not wasted! It's designed to cost you points to move from one area to another. That's how they balance the tree. If they wanted you to get from one place to another, they wouldn't put any nodes in between. They put those nodes there for a reason. And that reason is not to nerf you personally.

Ok but an average of 10 skill points isn't too much? And moreover... if i am forced to pay such a cost, at least give me one thing in exchange, not 10 miserable stat points :/ Maybe those Scion area double stat point (+10 - +10) would be better. But progressing "high" level (let's say over lvl 80) and all you gain for all those time spent it's a miserable +10... well it's disheartening

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Wispo wrote:

Ok but an average of 10 skill points isn't too much? And moreover... if i am forced to pay such a cost, at least give me one thing in exchange, not 10 miserable stat points :/ Maybe those Scion area double stat point (+10 - +10) would be better. But progressing "high" level (let's say over lvl 80) and all you gain for all those time spent it's a miserable +10... well it's disheartening

Those 20 stat scion nodes are actually probably never picked up, which is why they are replaced with jewel sockets in beta.

Those 10 stat points aren't wasted though, aside from giving you necessary stats you need for items, gems, ect they also give you:

Every 10 strength grants
An additional 5 maximum life
2% increased melee physical damage

Every 10 dexterity grants
An additional 20 accuracy rating
2% increased evasion rating

Every 10 intelligence grants
An additional 5 maximum mana
2% increased maximum energy shield


There are actually build(s) out there that use strength and things like iron will to become a tank life based caster. Hell the gem is good enough for things like:




With act 4 they are adding a new unqiue that scales the spell damage the weapon provides off of int, so a similar mechanic.

They are adding stuff that are radius jewels that convert X stat to X stat or give you ways to get bonuses based off of whats around, for example there is one that allows you to run an extra curse if you have int points in the aoe around it.

There is one that converts axe nodes into bow nodes.

Plenty of cool things with the passive tree are coming. But the stat nodes are not just 0 benefit they have some, even after providing some needed stats for items\gear.

I know what they provides (int has increased a bit my es), but or the bonus it's too little respect to the time consumed to level up, or there are wasted points (let's see that tax int point between templar and witch, between Might and Unnatural calm: posed in a total desert, doesn't leads to anything... like if in the witch area a player will not already found sufficient +10 int nodes -.-)

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Wispo wrote:

I know what they provides (int has increased a bit my es), but or the bonus it's too little respect to the time consumed to level up, or there are wasted points (let's see that tax int point between templar and witch, between Might and Unnatural calm: posed in a total desert, doesn't leads to anything... like if in the witch area a player will not already found sufficient +10 int nodes -.-)

IMO you need to look at the larger picture not what each and every level gives you. Actually this might be another time to tell you that every level also increases your base life, of course you don't benefit much from that :D

The power between a level 82 and 92 character is insane 10 skill points is a lot. Just like whenever people reach level 100 the difference between that and level 90 are large, the cost is also much larger between 90>100 then any other time, part of the reason why I dont progress characters past that.

Even if you "waste" 2-3 or more getting to the next DPS or whatever cluster you are going to its worth it as you are investing into making your character more powerful.

OP's motivation for the change is that it costs him more currency than it could to respec. So he wants a change that costs him less. He qualifies this as "bad design" because it isn't going his way.

That's not a particularly compelling argument.

Desync actually is bad design because it breaks the intention that the devs have for the game. It's a technical problem that gets in the way of what they want to achieve.

Respeccing costs currency. And devs have stated they want players to try out new builds by rerolling. That design goal is achieved.

Why would they need to implement a lot of extra code to add more complexity to the game?
We can just say, "Skill tree remains unbroken. End of."
It's an elegant and straightforward rule to apply.

I have a new rule for balance suggestions:
"If your suggestion is nakedly self-serving, you cannot justify it."

I'm looking at the legacy threads.