Skill tree: Easy way to move passive points

"

Tanakeah wrote:

Goetz...saying that his choice is a 'mistake' and that it's entirely on him is a bit overly harsh, don't you think? What about people who start their tree off through a path like that because they need those attributes for gear requirements as first, but then later on get gear down the line that has +Int, +Dex, +Str, or +All Attributes on it and therefore make those nodes redundant? How exactly is that a 'mistake' on the OP's part, or anyone's part for that matter if such circumstances happen? And it's not something that's completely uncommon either, especially as you upgrade gear, or buy something from someone else if you're on the lookout on poe.goods or trade chat/board and stumble across it.



Basically in this case the player is penalized for upgrading their gear and wanting to change a pathway early on, or at some other point in the tree, and that seems a little...not good in my eyes. Or take for example someone starting on the Marauder tree and going down the physical damage node line instead of the life/armour nodes because early on they value the damage more than the life. However, as gear improves and a better weapon is obtained, the person does some calculations and finds that it's better to go for the life/armour nodes because the damage loss isn't a big deal and survival for their particular build is worth more. Example I'm talking about:

Spoiler

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgEAe4yExH7gdn-eV-RRUEfvDhQgXz8=

And then to this:

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgEA5FFQR-8OFCBfP8bYWGM9_IzP9kg=

(Trees cut down to show the main example as the rest is fluff)

It would cost the person 10 total points in that regard to do a respec that should only cost 5 nodes since it's an even exchange and the pathing is not broken or becoming non-functional. There could very well be some technical limitations not allowing this to be sure, as I and I don't think anyone really knows how the tree is coded to work exactly. However, if the path was broken and incomplete when a person wants to make a change, could it not be checked for such an error and thus bring up a warning informing the player that "Your Passive Tree path is incomplete. Please allocate passives to reconnect properly or else all changes will be reverted back to their original state"? And again, the person would still have to spend the respec points to do this either through the ones given in questing, or through Regret Orbs.

You do bring up the idea that this would introduce 'exploits' of sorts, but I am not seeing anything exploitative about it. What specific instances, scenarios, or circumstances would this be allowing exploits to occur if the cost is 1:1 in terms of taking out the points to put them back into the tree once more, but only changing the path to be more efficient or more in line with a person's build as said build and gear grows and evolves?

"

If you needed those stat points early then don't you think its worth the cost to pay extra regrets in order to respec out of them later or at least plan your character so that when you level you can plan to not waste extra regrets?

The mistake is multi-fold, in this case he didn't specify whether or not he needed those stat points while leveling, but if he didn't and he chose the wrong path how is it not a mistake?

"

Your example of marauder works well for my example of a circumstance that a player might do, level as a 2 handed physical marauder and respec into RF later. Why should passive tree changes like his in yours only cost 1 regret each when you are completely changing the stats required or used by the build?

"

Tanakeah wrote:

"

If you needed those stat points early then don't you think its worth the cost to pay extra regrets in order to respec out of them later or at least plan your character so that when you level you can plan to not waste extra regrets?

The mistake is multi-fold, in this case he didn't specify whether or not he needed those stat points while leveling, but if he didn't and he chose the wrong path how is it not a mistake?

I don't believe it is worth the cost to pay extra regrets because as much planning as you might do, you are still at the mercy of RNG when it comes to gear, even with the F.Masters and their crafting benches. You can certainly plan ahead, but until you get your Master up high enough then either you're going to have to 'fish' for those stats via Trans/Alt/Aug, pray you get lucky on a regal/alch, or trade with others. And when you're starting off as a brand new character, or starting off in a new league where this stuff isn't readily available then it hurts those people because they have to waste more than they should if they want to correct something later on because they have no control over what the game dictates they get.

I mean, if you're using gear that keeps your resists capped and has good life, but you need extra Dex/Int to run a curse/aura for example, you're likely not going to drop your resists or life for a piece of gear that has the Dex/Int you need, but has extremely inferior everything else. For some, they may lose +20-30 resists of each type depending on what they find, and especially for those in the HC league, that's something they won't do. Again, only so much that pre-planning can do and all that planning won't help you if the RNG doesn't roll at least a little bit in your favor.

And even if he chose the 'wrong path' early on, it's still an even exchange and is less punishing on him and newer players. This game is already quite harsh when it comes to builds, min/maxing, etc, etc, being able to trade out one path over the other in an even exchange is not going to make or break someone's build in the long run.

"

Your example of marauder works well for my example of a circumstance that a player might do, level as a 2 handed physical marauder and respec into RF later. Why should passive tree changes like his in yours only cost 1 regret each when you are completely changing the stats required or used by the build?

But even if you level as a 2-Handed build, you're still going to need to sink points into damage nodes and those 5 beginning points are a drop in the bucket compared to what other respeccing you might need to do. You're not going to take burning damage and huge amounts of regen as you're leveling, and the only people that might attempt to 'save' some points would be those who already have 'twink gear' to help them along, and if they have that, then they've already played this game enough and did their thing that 'exploiting' is hardly a concern. To fresh starters and leagues, it's not something that's going to be 'exploited' lightly unless the gear is already there and the transition can be made quickly, otherwise what is saved isn't going to be much.

"

JuniorHakensheath wrote:

I think he is saying that he wants to be able to break his tree, as long as he puts it back together again.

"

JuniorHakensheath wrote:

He is saying that a normal respec would be 3 regrets to move the 3 points - but since he is tree dependent on those nodes - he has to accumulate 3 additional passive points to reconnect his tree through the projectile nodes before he can refund them.

"

Nicholas_Steel wrote:

1) His idea doesn't open up a window for any exploits.
2) His idea is sound and reasonable.

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

And what 100% exclude that it could be possible to keep the tree broken after the respec? The best (and only real safe) method to prevent from keeping the tree broken, is to make it impossible to break it.

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

But, with this 3 prereserved "additional" passive points, its STILL just 3 nodes to respec for 3 nodes to respec. The only issue is to 'invest' the next three levels (or bonus skillpoints) prior to doing the respec itself - just close the gap.

"

silumit wrote:

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

And what 100% exclude that it could be possible to keep the tree broken after the respec? The best (and only real safe) method to prevent from keeping the tree broken, is to make it impossible to break it.

Not the only. It could be two-step: first you press "respec", remove some SP, then you press "distribute respecced" and distribute them back, and only then you press "done" saving tree to game's DB. Didn't OP describe something like that?

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

But, with this 3 prereserved "additional" passive points, its STILL just 3 nodes to respec for 3 nodes to respec. The only issue is to 'invest' the next three levels (or bonus skillpoints) prior to doing the respec itself - just close the gap.

Sure, this is so easy to do at high levels...