Aura Change Feedback and Suggestion

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SevenKnives wrote:

Why won't they fix mana reservation on auras and leave additional free socket for active skills ? Reduced Mana and Enlighten should not reduce mana reservation on auras.
Aura gems at higher levels could have less reservation cost.

Have you read any of this thread at all?

Aura levels isn't enough there has to be another factor to reducing the cost, aura level already provide enough benefit as it is.

Hell @ anuhart what about your level idea, what to stop someone from using a level 4 empower and alpha howl to reduce mana cost so significantly WHILE INCREASING THE POWER OF THE AURA AS WELL.

Thats the whole point of my thread is to make something that isn't desirable at all on auras into something people can use. I dont need to repeat all the benefits of such system I've said it multiple times in this thread.

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goetzjam wrote:

Enhance has a mana MULTIPLIER which gives exactly the OPPOSITE effect that you would want if you are trying to reduce the cost.

thiiiiis... it looks like it needs to be highlighted

Goetz.

Yes someone could use empower.

It has a mana multiplier and only increases the 20 or 21 aura in extreme cases up to level 26.

The empower gem is adding 4 levels of reduced reserve, 1/5th of what levelling the gem to 20 gave, and has a mana multiplier of 125% itself (this being a point you raise about enhance).

versus.

The enhance gem possibly giving 40% quality to a gem that has 20% quality at lvl 20. Adding DOUBLE as opposed to 1/5th, for that 125% multiplier cost.

You are saying one thing is OK because of 125% multiplier, but saying another isn't when it gives 1/10th of the bonus to reserve for the same 125% cost.

?????

Let's also look at your point about enlighten. Even though, when I point out your suggestion fucks over people with already corrupted 21 gems at 0 quality that cannot be GCP'd and your response is 'fuck permanent league players', you then use the mirrored gear card that the mirrored gear coloured for RM (red) is fucked with the switch to enlighten.

Then you switch it to enhance (green) and poopoo that empower could be used, IT'S FUCKING RED, just like RM!!!!

You are also forgetting catarina +1 support mod, +1 gem mod, atziri's disvavour +2 supports. These have a MASSIVE impact on enhance if reserve = quality versus comparatively minimal impact on empower if level = quality. Empower is actually a case where the 125% multiplier DOES offset, and more, the effect, it DOES NOT offset such with enhance such as you claim.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Goetz.

Yes someone could use empower.

It has a mana multiplier and only increases the 20 or 21 aura in extreme cases up to level 26.

The empower gem is adding 4 levels of reduced reserve, 1/5th of what levelling the gem to 20 gave, and has a mana multiplier of 125% itself (this being a point you raise about enhance).

versus.

The enlighten gem possibly giving 40% quality to a gem that has 20% quality at lvl 20. Adding DOUBLE as opposed to 1/5th, for that 125% multiplier cost.

You are saying one thing is OK because of 125% multiplier, but saying another isn't when it gives 1/10th of the bonus to reserve for the same 125% cost.

?????

Let's also look at your point about enlighten. Even though, when I point out your suggestion fucks over people with all ready corrupted 21 gems at 0 quality that cannot be GCP'd and your response is 'fuck permanent league players', you then use the mirrored gear card that the mirrored gear coloured for RM (red) is fucked with the switch to enlighten.

Then you switch it to enhance (green) and poopoo that empower could be used, IT'S FUCKING RED, just like RM!!!!

You are also forgetting catarina +1 support mod, +1 gem mod, atziri's disvavour +2 supports. These have a MASSIVE impact on enhance if reserve = quality but comparatively minimal impact on empower if level = quality. Empower is actually a case where the 125% multiplier DOES offset, and more, the effect, it DOES NOT offset such with enhance such as you claim.

Ok so let me just say if you think my idea is terrible because of extremes that could be possible for enhance then you would have to be a fool to think that +levels would ever be a good solution to reduce the cost of auras further.

If my idea is bad then yours is clearly worse.


Here is why:

Auras already gain things when leveling them. Why reward you in another way for leveling an item that already gives bonuses? Thats like having the mana cost of gems decrease or something as you level them.

Alpha's howl is suddenly the best item ever, again. Just roll 3 colors for auras and red for empower and you have up to level 27 gems that not only provide you the power of such high level gems, but also don't end up costing you more then current live because you've decided to add a bonus to level of aura gems that isn't necessary and would be extremely overpowered.

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Let's also look at your point about enlighten. Even though, when I point out your suggestion fucks over people with all ready corrupted 21 gems at 0 quality that cannot be GCP'd and your response is 'fuck permanent league players', you then use the mirrored gear card that the mirrored gear coloured for RM (red) is fucked with the switch to enlighten.

My response was fuck your gems yes. GGG should have never had a shitty quality system in place for auras or any gems that doesn't make having quality gems desirable.

Theres a big difference between fuck standard players level 21 gems and fuck their mirrored gear, but in terms of balance I care not what people may have in standard, if it means we can get a better game because of the change. My suggestion would make the red sockets in peoples mirrored gear useless or unused rather then possible completely useless like the enlighten change. Hell your suggestion of +levels getting reduced mana might make those same mirrored pieces, even more powerful, which is completely wrong way to go about fixing a gem.

I never said enhance could do what you are saying it can do. I don't care to break down the math right now, but you can get the idea of +40% quality out of your head, its not going to happen for peoples builds, at most its +32% and again I think that is extremely rare and it is 1000000000000 times less powerful then your +level suggestion with empower.

Yes +2 disfavor axe can reach the 40%, but you then are using a 2 handed pretty rare axe to reserve an extra aura? I mean you could just probably use prism guardian at that point. I never forgot or ignored the +1 mods, without disfavor axe you can't reach anything but level 5 enhance, period. Again that doesn't come without a significant cost and that doesnt give a free damage or defensive boost like your empower would suggest.

<Edited by support>

this thread is quickly becoming GOLD

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goetzjam wrote:

without disfavor axe you can't reach anything but level 5 enhance

So, you want to not include disfavour, OK.
Level 5 enhance, 32% quality.

Normal gem quality, 20%

So where exactly were you pitching this amount of reduction per % quality?

We used to get like 29% from a lvl 20 RM. 30% from a lvl 21, which mostly made no difference.

Say quality gives 1% per 1%.

A 20q gem gives 20% reduced.

OK a 60% aura now reserves 48%, it would have reserved 42% with RM formerly.

We add a lvl 4 enhance, the 125% multiplier now makes the aura reserve 60% but with the 24% quality it now reserves 46%.

Now we do it with a lvl 5 enhance, 41%

We just swapped RM red gem, which was gonna be enlighten blue gem (which you cite mirror gear as a problem) and turned it into enhance green gem while reserving less mana to boot.

The guys with the mirrored gear still get fucked over with their red socket and everyone with already 21 auras without quality get fucked over, too. You said you don't care about the latter but do the former, god only knows how you justify this, but any way. You just fucked over more people and didn't address what you wanted.


Let's say quality only gives 0.5% per quality.

OK a 60% aura now reserves 54%, it would have reserved 42% with RM formerly.

We add a lvl 4 enhance, the 125% multiplier now makes the aura reserve 67% but with the 12% quality it now reserves 59%.

Now we do it with a lvl 5 enhance, 56%


Lets look at this with 60% auras changed to 50%

Say quality gives 1% per 1%.

A 20q gem gives 20% reduced.

OK a 50% aura now reserves 40%, it would have reserved 42% with RM formerly as a 60% aura.

We add a lvl 4 enhance, the 125% multiplier now makes the aura reserve 50% but with the 24% quality it now reserves 38%.

Now we do it with a lvl 5 enhance, 34%


Let's say quality only gives 0.5% per quality.

OK a 50% aura now reserves 44%, it would have reserved 42% with RM formerly as a 60% aura.

We add a lvl 4 enhance, the 125% multiplier now makes the aura reserve 56% but with the 12% quality it now reserves 50%.

Now we do it with a lvl 5 enhance, 48%.


So where are you going to pitch this?

More the point, where are you going to pitch it so as we are not simply swapping a red RM to a green Enhance in attempting to not be a blue Enlighten?

Apologies if my math is off, feel free to provide the pitch with correct math.

Edit: corrected math, I think.

What we are looking for is the base % reserve and the % reserve per quality to mean that we come out with 42% and any level of Enhance cannot reduce that.

60% auras now reserve 47% base and get 0.5% reserve per quality?

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Let's say quality only gives 0.5% per quality.

OK a 50% aura now reserves 44%, it would have reserved 42% with RM formerly as a 60% aura.

We add a lvl 4 enhance, the 125% multiplier now makes the aura reserve 56% but with the 12% quality it now reserves 50%.

Now we do it with a lvl 5 enhance, 48%.


What we are looking for is the base % reserve and the % reserve per quality to mean that we come out with 42% and any level of Enhance cannot reduce that.

So you found the sweet spot to make it not worth taking enhance and still providing enough reduced mana (more then likely) to have that extra aura builds are wanting, especially with jewels. And actually the 20\23 I was talking about may also play a huge part with this number formula.

So are you trying to find the sweet spot on the suggestion or you still want + levels to be the new reduced mana?

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goetzjam wrote:

So you found the sweet spot to make it not worth taking enhance and still providing enough reduced mana (more then likely) to have that extra aura builds are wanting, especially with jewels. And actually the 20\23 I was talking about may also play a huge part with this number formula.

So are you trying to find the sweet spot on the suggestion or you still want + levels to be the new reduced mana?

I did the work you refused to do for one example, that being a 60% aura currently. Which is pitched at ~47% with 0.5% per quality.

How does it work with other auras and corruptions?

The problem of already corrupted lvl 21 auras still exists which is the primary reason why reserve reduction per quality is bad.

I much prefer reserve reduction by level, yes. For the simple reason it works differently, quality gives the same per quality and always does, in values of 1%, 0.5% and 0.75% with rare cases of giving more than 1% iirc but is a constant.

By level works different, see +max resists on purity of x gems.
You add 4 levels and get +1
You add another 6 levels and get +2
You add another 6 levels and get +3
You add another 3 levels and get +4
You add another 3 levels and get +5
You add another 7 levels and still are on +5.

Base aura reserve can be a nice round figure, no 47% BS.
Increments to reduced reserve can be placed at any level at any value.
If a cap is wanted, levels above 20 can give no more.

I prefer the current system we have in live over the beta version and your suggestion.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

So you found the sweet spot to make it not worth taking enhance and still providing enough reduced mana (more then likely) to have that extra aura builds are wanting, especially with jewels. And actually the 20\23 I was talking about may also play a huge part with this number formula.

So are you trying to find the sweet spot on the suggestion or you still want + levels to be the new reduced mana?

I did the work you refused to do for one example, that being a 60% aura currently. Which is pitched at ~47% with 0.5% per quality.

How does it work with other auras and corruptions?

The problem of already corrupted lvl 21 auras still exists which is the primary reason why reserve reduction per quality is bad.

I much prefer reserve reduction by level, yes. For the simple reason it works differently, quality gives the same per quality and always does, in values of 1%, 0.5% and 0.75% with rare cases of giving more than 1% iirc but is a constant.

By level works different, see +max resists on purity of x gems.
You add 4 levels and get +1
You add another 6 levels and get +2
You add another 6 levels and get +3
You add another 3 levels and get +4
You add another 3 levels and get +5
You add another 7 levels and still are on +5.

Base aura reserve can be a nice round figure, no 47% BS.
Increments to reduced reserve can be placed at any level at any value.
If a cap is wanted, levels above 20 can give no more.

I thought I quoted a specific one being the current 50% they have for auras, not 60% like before?

I am glad you did the work, but I am kinda you know at work, so even responding is taking up more time then I should be spending on it. Plus you were the one so keen on saying enhance was literally broken with my suggestion, which it turns out it is not and depending on implementation won't even be a factor in reducing the cost.

I understand people already have level 21 corrupted auras with 0 quality, hell even I have a handful of them, the fact of the matter is GGG should have never had such an undesirable quality on those gems to begin with. Now that they are changing the reduced mana thing, I think its a perfect opportunity to improve that quality desire that is missing from aura gems. So you won't be able to use all your level 21 gems immediately after the patch, part of the fun of PoE is coming up with a fresh or new idea. Gems get changed all the time, hell I have a 20\20 immortal call that is losing all of the bonuses from quality that I originally got it for (increased duration is now cast time).

There is one thing certain in PoE and that is things will change, you can't get into this vacuum of thinking your character won't be affected at all by changes, because it will. If this was a single player game, yes you have that option to not update or whatever, but it isn't.

Yes they could scale + gems to not provide any more overpoweredness that comes from empower, but it still doesn't prevent the fact that +gems already provide enough for auras and +quality provides nothing.

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I prefer the current system we have in live over the beta version and your suggestion.

The problem is GGG is not keeping the current system, so either you jump on board with the best suggestion made or you live with the consequences of enlighten or whatever else they decide to go with. The game is changing, change isn't always a bad thing, but it scares the crap out of people.

Current 60% aura, being 47% instead with a 0.5% per quality is the sweet spot.

The closest example (which you quoted) is current 60% aura, being 50% instead with a 0.5% per quality.

I'm using current, live, as the reference sample, not beta which can change.