Genuine Golem Feedback

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RootCookie wrote:

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S3ph1r0th wrote:

If you dont understand how you contradict yourself i wont bother.

Then why did you bother posting, because as far as I'm concerned you're the one that's confused.

Go trough S3ph1r0th's posts from today.. Been Going around being negative / mad at everything and everyone. No need to bother with this guy.

Rapidly Melting Ice Sculpture
Active gem
Grants 20% increases to Crit Chance and Accuracy
Base duration 2.5 seconds
Mandatory (cannot be stored in inventory, automatically occupies a socket on pickup)

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theloveduck wrote:

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S3ph1r0th wrote:

you contradict yourself with these quotes and your reply.

If you dont understand how you contradict yourself i wont bother.

And still, 20%extra accu isnt THAT much if you ahve to summon a constantly dying golem.

I think maybe the bombastic language of "Golems being required" or mandatory might be tripping you up. No they're not necessarily mandatory, but their bonus is quite good, so good in fact, that if you and I are of equal skill, and we both cleverly arrange our trees, and you opt not to use a golem, I will far outstrip you in efficiency, survivability, or both.

The problem here isn't one of breaking the game or making something mandatory. It's about conferring an advantage that is simply too good to ignore.

I actually like the bonuses they give. I think they need some work, though.

I agree the bonuses are nice. But thats as far as they go: "nice".
My whole objection was the "mandatory thing" and calling it a one slot wonder.
It wont be a 1 slot wonder cause it will be dying too often in high rolled maps so you have to invest in it with more slots to make it tankier.Since you ahve to invest 4 slots on it , then its balanced by taking slots and not in need of further adjustment in the form of mana reserve. That is my whole debate with junior.

@junior you stalking me? Funny.
Also, i havent been negative to everybody today. Just you and some whiners who think they are entitled to beta keys for supporting GGG and go as far as to whine 24/4 on forums and making "alliances" between same-minded [probably will be removed by support].

@scrotie Mate, dont try to pass the light. Some people value their Vector boots WAY too high.

They're good, but they're not "auto-include-on-every-build good" (unlike 1.3 CwDT + EC + IC + ID, for example).

They require minion life investment (besides the support gem) to even function at higher levels.

They have socket pressure and skill-bind pressure to compete with against an ever-growing array of temporary buffs and movement skills.

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pneuma wrote:

They're good, but they're not "auto-include-on-every-build good" (unlike 1.3 CwDT + EC + IC + ID, for example).

They require minion life investment (besides the support gem) to even function at higher levels.

They have socket pressure and skill-bind pressure to compete with against an ever-growing array of temporary buffs and movement skills.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

I actually did think this initially, but they do start dying a little faster. Not sure if it's fast enough that it's a bother, but you will be wasting time constantly summoning them in maps. This is with him being constantly leveled.

In maps, he started to die so frequently, that at times when you actually want him, he's not worth summoning.

QFT

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S3ph1r0th wrote:

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pneuma wrote:

They're good, but they're not "auto-include-on-every-build good" (unlike 1.3 CwDT + EC + IC + ID, for example).

They require minion life investment (besides the support gem) to even function at higher levels.

They have socket pressure and skill-bind pressure to compete with against an ever-growing array of temporary buffs and movement skills.

\

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SL4Y3R wrote:

I actually did think this initially, but they do start dying a little faster. Not sure if it's fast enough that it's a bother, but you will be wasting time constantly summoning them in maps. This is with him being constantly leveled.

In maps, he started to die so frequently, that at times when you actually want him, he's not worth summoning.

QFT

Spoiler

Another BETA and ALPHA member saying the same thing i said in the first page. Still they WONT care nor bother to listen to someone who actually HAS closed beta/testing access and knows wtf is happening to him.

Yeah, conceded. Having to fourlink it does indeed bring it more in line with other skills, and higher maps are indeed the great equalizer. But this introduces a new problem, and that is: I can now use my golem to quickly level up to say 60 or so, maybe 70, and then discard it in favor of what it is I'm gunning for, and that's not really that big of a problem I suppose. Maybe a little exploitative, though.

I think I could be good with it if the bonus either scaled with gem level or it was able to affect minions, probably to a lesser degree than it affects the player. We'll have to see how it shakes out I guess.

Okay, seriously, what is with all this talk about it not benefiting minions?

I've read people saying that they are worse for summoners... unless I'm really really missing something, that sounds really really fucking dumb.

As a summoner, you get a new minion with greater staying power and greater damage than non summoning builds. Golems do have the minion tag, right? You get all your normal +gem levels, and buffed life/damage from gear and tree. Personally I'd rather the aura buff not have to be balanced around minion potential so it's something actually useful for nonsummoners with their weaker HP and weaker damage.

Seriously, they could outright remove the aura buffs and people would have just been like oh sweet a new minion I may or may not want to run.

For summoners, couldn't they just add a support gem than weakens the golem while granting its aura to your minions? Granted, it would have to be a fairly weak aura, since it reserves no mana. Just throwing out an idea. I'm not in the beta so I have no experience with golems yet.

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CanHasPants wrote:

Okay, seriously, what is with all this talk about it not benefiting minions?

I've read people saying that they are worse for summoners... unless I'm really really missing something, that sounds really really fucking dumb.

As a summoner, you get a new minion with greater staying power and greater damage than non summoning builds. Golems do have the minion tag, right? You get all your normal +gem levels, and buffed life/damage from gear and tree. Personally I'd rather the aura buff not have to be balanced around minion potential so it's something actually useful for nonsummoners with their weaker HP and weaker damage.

Seriously, they could outright remove the aura buffs and people would have just been like oh sweet a new minion I may or may not want to run.

Considering their base hp is decent, dmg is decent, etc. Just because other minions don't get the buff doesn't mean they shouldn't be included. They're mobile, fast, and at the very least cool to use. I really like the art design on the ice golem.

Ice golem

5% movement speed to all minion

fire golem

5% attack speed to all minion

chaos golem

minions regenerate 1% life

Not sure if these would be game-breaking changes, i could see a "little" fluff for your minions work. Though i agree with pants that since they are labeled minions, summoners are automatically getting a good deal.

The problem i see atm is that only the chaos golem seems appealing to me from a summoners point of view because it has the only buff a summoner could functionally use.

Some competition among the golems even in summoner builds might be very cool in my opinion.

Peace,

-Boem-