Projectiles can't shotgun?

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raics wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

Does this mean that my Incinerate cannot shotgun anymore?

Not to worry, Nate, I'm positive that Incinerate will remain a top-tier spell after the dust settles, shotgunning or no.

Raics, this is the first time when I think you are wrong. From what I have tested (in a vakuum) the situation is horrible. As long as you clear trashmobs there is almost no difference. But if it comes to single target dps we are doomed. Let me provide some numbers from my char:

with shotgunning:
5700 (tooltip) dps * 4 (stages) * 5 projectiles (gmp) = 114000 dps

without shotgunning:
5700 (tooltip) dps * 4 (stages) * 1 projectile = 22800 dps (80% less dps)
because I have another gemslot free now (swapping between trash and single target boss) I tried different gems to replace gmp and the best I could find was faster projectiles. With faster projectiles dps was:
11200 (tooltip) dps * 4 (stages) * 1 projectile = 44800 dps (still ~60% less single target dps)

Without shotgunning incinerate is still a great trashmobkiller but the single target dps is just..... meeeh. And we all know with shotgunning incinerate was/is a singletarget killing mashine.

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666lol666 wrote:

Raics, this is the first time when I think you are wrong.

Yeah, I know. I lied, had to try and cheer him up a bit, too bad it didn't work :/

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And I agree, damage beyond shotgunning range will be higher, and within shotgunning range it will depend on how close the enemy is. If they double the damage it will be double at long range, same where two projectiles overlapped and 33% lower at point blank, assuming LMP.

Actually, no, LMP starts at 25% less now and progresses in what, 1% per two levels so it ends up at 16% less, right? That's 20% more than before, let's say 15% more because you did get a smidgen of inc projectile damage by levelling LMP.

So it would actually be 2,3 times more at long range, 1,15% more at mid and 25% less at point blank. All of that using LMP, of course. Compare to GMP it's 40% less at point blank, in rough figures, it's getting late. Probably bearable, incinerate was a pretty damn strong skill, it can take such a hit.

Now, to get back at the first 'IF', what if they don't double its damage because it would be too much at long range? Well, there are a number of things they can do, one of them giving it a damage dropoff like freezing pulse has. That would allow pushing damage higher and it would be justified, it's a skill that inevitably ends up being used at close quarters because of limited kiting ability, it could have top-tier damage again.

Now, what's not so rosy about that is they could remember what incinerate is supposed to be - a high damage skill with a drawback, and that drawback has became obsolete with advent of spell echo so it might be revisited in some way.

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BearCares wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

GGG is nerfing the wrong things.

No, my man, unfortunately, GGG is nerfing the right things. You remember those carrots I mentioned? Well, one of them is shaped like a norse god hammer.

I understand what you're trying to say perfectly, I used to think that way too. You know how the world sometimes seems too chaotic? I guess it would all make perfect sense if we understood the grand design, if there was such a thing. Well, you can bet your last exalt that PoE has a grand design and follows it as close as possible. You or me liking it has no consequence, you clap and congratulate when the opposing team scores a nice point, regardless of the fact the goal they're working for isn't to your liking.

The logic is perfectly sound, it's all in the viewport.

I stand behind you raics (not doing anything perverted, I promise)

And I'm not even going to try to get into the finer points of what you two are saying but I will say that nerfing a few things that are too prevalent is better than buffing a lot of things that are less popular from a balance stand point.

Nerfs done well are good. And I don't understand people who can't get that. Balance is relative, and erring on the side of nerfs increases the challenge factor of the experience. It's win/win.

So you mean to tell me that armor is now even slightly better with the indirect nerf to EC/IC?

No, IC is still just as broken as it ever was.

@raics:

You've changed, and not for the better. Nicest way I can put it, sorry.

People and games don't change so easily, it's a lot more likely that your outlook on both is the thing that changed. There's no reason to feel sorry whatever the case may be, and thanks for being nice.

I will post my 2 cents since I read so much a bout block and nerfs. GGG could have lowered max block to perhaps 65% (block seemed to get really strong at 70%+). Made the nodes a bit harder to get and that seems a balanced approach. In essence they removed it from the game.

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Fhark wrote:

I will post my 2 cents since I read so much a bout block and nerfs. GGG could have lowered max block to perhaps 65% (block seemed to get really strong at 70%+). Made the nodes a bit harder to get and that seems a balanced approach. In essence they removed it from the game.

Yes, I suggested a similar solution before they did it their way, nerfing base block and passives only slightly but capping block at 75% from the front, 50% from the side and 25% from the rear, it's supposedly possible and I'd have loved to see positioning matter a little more.

has anyone considered trying vaal burning arrow if explosion shotguns and if linked with pierce if explosions after pierce shotgun as well?