Armor

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Starxsword wrote:

No, it is not possible to take 2 medium hits in a row. The hits you take are always set according to your evasion percentage. If you have a 66% evade, it will always be in this pattern hit-miss-miss-hit-miss-miss. If you have 50% evasion, it will be hit-miss-hit-miss, etc.

Imagine you have 2 mobs around you, an white squid and a yellow bear with increased phys damage.
It may happen that they attack alternately and you end up getting hit by the bear 2 times in a row, while evading the squid. Basically your mitigation was close to 0% during that interval, and in some situations, a bad streak like that one is enough to kill you. It's not a big deal for standard chars, but it certainly is for hc ones. Evasion might have better mitigation %, but armor is MUCH MORE reliable.

CoDT setups cover this weakness too well, and with them, EV might be better. But comparing armor + endurances against EV + acro, armor is a lot stronger IMO. Also armor works better with block since 1.3.

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Boem wrote:

Also evasion still allows to be hit-hit-hit-hit since entropy is counted on every mob hitting you.

If your surrounded by a group of mobs and all reach there "hit" entropy you can get 6 hits in a row.

This is not true. From the wiki:

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If it is first time an entity is attacked or if the time between the last attack and this one is larger than 6 seconds, randomise the entropy from 0-99.

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^weaver is 100% physical no clue why people think it's chaos damage. (the EK portion at least)

That can't be so. I fought the Weaver in Bloodlines as a CI character maybe a week ago. I take no noticeable damage from it. The other times I fought it, its green Ethereal Knives is very noticeable.

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It's not a big deal for standard chars, but it certainly is for hc ones. Evasion might have better mitigation %, but armor is MUCH MORE reliable.

Yeah, I agree with that. Armor may have worse numbers, but it is more reliable. The biggest negative side to evasion is probably bleed. Since a good strong bleed hit is very scary.
Even physical spells aren't as bad, since the pack size of Undying Evangelist got nerfed.

Hmm i always assumed if it was part chaos it would deal a lot more damage and be extremely deadly since most people rock -60% in merciless. Sort of guessed it was pure physical since weaver never seems to pose a danger to my characters =/ a simply granite usually seems to trivialize the encounter.

@Dnanger not sure how that disproves my statement, you can still get hitlocked even while you have evasion.

It just requires a lot of mobs to all be hitting you at the same time. As far as i know evasion is calculated against the creeps accuracy so the entropy is "creep based".

And yes if a creep hits you, your entropy is reset, but i think this means it is reset vs that creep alone not against all creeps attacking you. As in it gives a stable pattern in a 1vs1 fight, but when surrounded it becomes less valuable.

Peace,

-Boem-

I was bored and went in to merciless Weaver with -40% chaos res and 100% ic uptime. Here are the results:

http://youtu.be/91rcQ98FVGs


Yes, he/she/it does chaos dmg.


I was using legacy coil so I took 6% of physical dmg as light dmg with my resis, but I dont think it matters much since it doesnt seem to matter in uber trio either.

I did same test on map Weaver btw and sometimes he hit me for 3k with melee attack while having ic up and about 1k with EK.

Thx for testing :).

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

@Dnanger not sure how that disproves my statement, you can still get hitlocked even while you have evasion.

It just requires a lot of mobs to all be hitting you at the same time. As far as i know evasion is calculated against the creeps accuracy so the entropy is "creep based".

And yes if a creep hits you, your entropy is reset, but i think this means it is reset vs that creep alone not against all creeps attacking you. As in it gives a stable pattern in a 1vs1 fight, but when surrounded it becomes less valuable.

Yes, you can have very bad streaks with evasion build, I gave one example of that with a bear and a squid attacking alternately.
Unless the wiki is wrong, entropy has 1 value per attacked entity, not per attacker. That's the only thing I was disagreeing with. This means that if a couple of mobs attack you in a quick succession, some of them are guaranteed to miss. But may happen that bears hit and squids miss, and you end up taking a heck of a lot of damage.

It's better than the alternative though. Better to have a chance of one bear hitting you twice in a row (with squid support), than a chance of two bears hitting you almost simultaneously (without squids at all). The former has more in the way of guaranteed mitigation (at worst, you ignore the squid's damage).

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It's better than the alternative though. Better to have a chance of one bear hitting you twice in a row (with squid support), than a chance of two bears hitting you almost simultaneously (without squids at all). The former has more in the way of guaranteed mitigation (at worst, you ignore the squid's damage).

True. I'm glad to see you back Scrotie :D

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Boem wrote:

Hmm i always assumed if it was part chaos it would deal a lot more damage and be extremely deadly since most people rock -60% in merciless. Sort of guessed it was pure physical since weaver never seems to pose a danger to my characters =/ a simply granite usually seems to trivialize the encounter.

@Dnanger not sure how that disproves my statement, you can still get hitlocked even while you have evasion.

It just requires a lot of mobs to all be hitting you at the same time. As far as i know evasion is calculated against the creeps accuracy so the entropy is "creep based".

And yes if a creep hits you, your entropy is reset, but i think this means it is reset vs that creep alone not against all creeps attacking you. As in it gives a stable pattern in a 1vs1 fight, but when surrounded it becomes less valuable.

Peace,

-Boem-

No. Entropy is shared among all the mobs trying to hit you. Each mob raises the entropy counter according to their chance to hit.

This is exactly why using evasion when surrounded by 1 high accuracy and many low accuracy mobs (that you are not killing fast enough) is a death-wish because the low accuracy mobs are essentially buffing the boss's chance to hit. So there is no "guaranteed" chance to avoid any of the boss' hits - the boss can hit you multiple times in a row. In 1v1 evasion excels, but trying to do something like Jungle Valley boss room with only evasion is a sure death-wish.

I made a post a while ago arguing that it should be changed so that each mob had their own entropy counter. But I was surprised to find that many evasion users did not know this or actually preferred this current system to minimize unlucky streaks.

To me that never made sense because you really don't care if white mobs hit, so you would rather each entity has their own counter.

This was the thread: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/957567

Armour isn't much different. It allows you to more or less completely ignore the small hits, and melts against the big ones. The difference? Once you get to 1v1, evasion actually matters.