Protecting your "PRECIOUS" economy ain't working so give up and fix desync instead

"

AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

It doesn't matter. Better game play at the cost of a few people who may want to cheat--and risk losing their account--is worth it. You have still yet to justify the opposite in any way we can mutually agree on.

Also, you repeatedly use hyperbole to base your argument on. It wouldn't "open the floodgates" for cheaters. Relatively, we are only allowing a small trickle through, so that the entire game can flow better.

You guys just keep going back through your circular logic despite having been summarily shot down. Unless you can come up with some new (and logical or verifiable) line of thinking, there's probably nothing more worth saying. If you still feel the need for the last word, help yourselves. I'm not concerned about it. The case has been dutifully made.

Like you do. "So many people will leave because of desync" is the same hyperpolic agrument made up without any numbers.

"

nothing more worth saying.

One thing. GGG will keep on this track despite your constant ranting and thats why I support GGG.

We'll see. =)

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Yes, you will have to wait for movement speed effects to send both ways before applying, but guess what? You already do, you just aren't aware of it under the current system until you desync.

The debate is over, you can keep going and waste your own time as well as mine or you can accept it and move forward. The model we discussed is superior to what we have.

So if you have to wait on the effects of movement speed to apply until the server checks what is the difference between semi trusting the client, but not really and what we have now. You aren't FULLY trusting the client with your proposed model, I suspect those that have issues with desync will STILL have issues, especially with monster effects like knockback, stun, ect still having to be trusted from the server and the client having to WAIT to receive it.

You are simply just changing who is receiving the message last, it won't make a difference.

The discussion isn't over just because you say it is, sure its easier for you to just say its over so you don't have to try and find the failed logic in the proposed solution that doesn't make it right.

The difference is no desync. There will be a slight delay on some actions but the mobs and characters will ALWAYS be where the client says they are. Anything the client waits for, it waits for. We are already waiting for those things right now, only difference is currently they desync everything on your screen.

Of course I'm not fully trusting the client, that's the fucking point. It doesn't alter the state of the game's security, which is why you have no legitimate reason to argue against this fix.

And no, it's not over because I say it's over, it's over because you have nothing left to fight for and no logical ground to stand on.

I just got the latest patch this morning (2-3-15) so I'll play tonight and see if the change reduces strongbox desync. I also started playing a new leapslam spectral throw build so I'll see how the new way that mobs get released upon opening a strongbox works or not.

Note: Thanks GGG. Keep reading our posts and making changes to work on reducing desync (every little bit helps).

"

The difference is no desync. There will be a slight delay on some actions but the mobs and characters will ALWAYS be where the client says they are. Anything the client waits for, it waits for. We are already waiting for those things right now, only difference is currently they desync everything on your screen.

So if there is a delay that is just like what they describe in the dev manafisto, only difference you describe is both trusting the client for movement AND the lag imput on moving a character.

"

Of course I'm not fully trusting the client, that's the fucking point. It doesn't alter the state of the game's security, which is why you have no legitimate reason to argue against this fix.

Except I do have a legit reason, you are just saying shit without fulling thinking about what you are saying. For example, at first it was just trust the client position for the character, now its the character AND the mobs, on top of that you are saying there will be a delay because it has to check for the environment or something from the server.

Either its trust the client for everything but loot drops and maybe damage calculations, but things like accuracy, range, ect can be manipulated or its the LAG you get from playing a Moba game.

"

And no, it's not over because I say it's over, it's over because you have nothing left to fight for and no logical ground to stand on.

Its over when the thread is locked or until you figure out what you are asking for obviously isn't going to happen.

The existing model is used for a reason, when you understand that you will understand why it shouldn't be changed.

There's only one sensible action to take to improve PoE - STOP PARTICIPATING and smack GGG in their faces with their own hubris. Nothing more. How else can we expect desync to be honestly dealt with if we keep lining their pockets? They don't even want people commenting on their business model because they know if we all wake up they're at a risk of losing alot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

"

Onslaught2k3 wrote:

There's only one sensible action to take to improve PoE - STOP PARTICIPATING and smack GGG in their faces with their own hubris. Nothing more. How else can we expect desync to be honestly dealt with if we keep lining their pockets? They don't even want people commenting on their business model because they know if we all wake up they're at a risk of losing alot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I don't have a problem with their business model. It's actually one of the best, and most honest, models of any f2p game. My problem is only with desync. Everything else about the game can be fine tuned as needed, but desync is the only thing currently that hinders the play experience.

"

AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

"

Onslaught2k3 wrote:

There's only one sensible action to take to improve PoE - STOP PARTICIPATING and smack GGG in their faces with their own hubris. Nothing more. How else can we expect desync to be honestly dealt with if we keep lining their pockets? They don't even want people commenting on their business model because they know if we all wake up they're at a risk of losing alot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I don't have a problem with their business model. It's actually one of the best, and most honest, models of any f2p game. My problem is only with desync. Everything else about the game can be fine tuned as needed, but desync is the only thing currently that hinders the play experience.

Still, fixing desync should happen via fixing the netcode or altering gamefeatures (like stunning, which causes most of the desyncs).

If you played games, which were infested by cheaters and ultimatly destroyed, you would see that trusting the client is a bad option.


I am sure, 99% would not cheat or do harm to the game.

Unfortunatly, the 1% is enough to completly undermine the whole game.

As we've discussed at great length so far in this thread, I agree that I would like them to fix it while preserving their security if that's an option, but I'm not confident that it is. Also, I have seen games destroyed by cheating, but I'm also not convinced this game would be from a slight loosening of the reigns. Again, we'll see. =)

Here's to hoping, though.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

The difference is no desync. There will be a slight delay on some actions but the mobs and characters will ALWAYS be where the client says they are. Anything the client waits for, it waits for. We are already waiting for those things right now, only difference is currently they desync everything on your screen.

So if there is a delay that is just like what they describe in the dev manafisto, only difference you describe is both trusting the client for movement AND the lag imput on moving a character.

Spoiler

All online games have this situation. The server has to dictate whether things happen or not, but there's a 50-250ms delay before data gets to the server and back. There are three ways that games can solve this:
Trust the client. This means people can cheat, but the results are instant. We will not do this.

Wait until data arrives back from the server before doing anything. This is a very common strategy in RTS and MOBA games. If you click to move, the unit will only start moving once the server says so, which is 50-250ms later. If you are close to the server, you'll quickly get used to the lag and everything feels pretty good. If you're far away (New Zealand, for example), it feels like you're playing drunk. Every time you issue an order, nothing happens for quarter of a second. This does not work well for Action RPGs - the immediacy and pace of combat requires that actions start to execute instantly.

"

Of course I'm not fully trusting the client, that's the fucking point. It doesn't alter the state of the game's security, which is why you have no legitimate reason to argue against this fix.

Except I do have a legit reason, you are just saying shit without fulling thinking about what you are saying. For example, at first it was just trust the client position for the character, now its the character AND the mobs, on top of that you are saying there will be a delay because it has to check for the environment or something from the server.

Either its trust the client for everything but loot drops and maybe damage calculations, but things like accuracy, range, ect can be manipulated or its the LAG you get from playing a Moba game.

"

And no, it's not over because I say it's over, it's over because you have nothing left to fight for and no logical ground to stand on.

Its over when the thread is locked or until you figure out what you are asking for obviously isn't going to happen.

The existing model is used for a reason, when you understand that you will understand why it shouldn't be changed.

Look dude, I've explained it to you like 4 times and it isn't complicated. If you aren't understanding it then that is because you choose not to.

Movement is handled by client. Everything else by server. Checks in place for movement buffs and move cheats are extremely grade school math level simple. There is NO fucking lag input on movement, only lag on gem effect application (IE, you hit a mob, wait 0.1 second for damage application) or buff application. You're ALREADY waiting for that right now in the current game state.

You can keep going on but you're just embarrassing yourself by pretending not to understand simple basic concepts.

Moreover, the entire reason you were arguing against this is because you wanted to whine about potential security and economy issues and I showed you why this won't change that at all.

I won't go ahead and explain how clear it is that you have ulterior motives and how obvious those motives are at this point in the discussion, because it doesn't matter. Even if you make your living off botting and rmt it has been shown this change will not affect you or the economy, so there's nothing left to argue about. You're just going on about nothing. Ggg implements this model and everyone is happy.

If anything, the larger player base would only give you more potential customers because there would be less desync rage quit.

The only other explanation I can come up with for you arguing against this fix is that you're on blizzards payroll to keep the game as shitty as you can make it. Good one, blizzard.