Protecting your "PRECIOUS" economy ain't working so give up and fix desync instead

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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Vincendra wrote:

I don't care how many people leave. As long as GGG can keep up with their quality output and not giving any inch to cheaters by giving the client more rights on anything in the game.

You won't be playing anything after everyone is gone and the servers shut down.

As long as players like me exists GGG doesn't need to shut down the servers. Its actually quite cleaver to use the whole nothing left after we all leave argument, however it is greatly flawed because you see your argument that you used before is PoE lost 90%+ or whatever number to desync already, do you really think the majority of players left haven't found a way to deal with desync in the game? Don't use this fear tactic when trying to make a point, it just makes you seem desperate to get supporters.

Please by all means TRY to keep this discussion more relevant on THIS specific topic of the economy. I would like a little bit more explanation to why it isn't worth saving or why it is worth opening up the doors for more cheaters.

Just FYI @arrowneous strongboxes were changed in 1.3.1, so please do tell me if you lag as hard, PLUS strongboxes are OPTIONAL content, they spawn monsters so even if you had a trusted client for your positioning, what is stopping the MONSTERS from blocking you, quartz flask? You can already use a quartz flask to help not die in this situation.

Also I don't think anyone here is opposed to GGG doing somethings to improve desync, they are however opposed to trusting the client for any actions, this is one of the very few games that "cheating" is far and few betweeen, what players have the ability to do with cheats is far less then any game I have seen. Because of the unqiue things GGG did with PoE as compared to other games like D2, D3, TL2, ect is create an economy as well as other features, at the cost of some issues in regards to positioning.

I have my video of gameplay posted in my signature, it isn't perfect 30FPS instead of 60fps recorded plus cancer build, but you can see that I don't die and or get moved back (even when slammin around)

I believe you are having issues and for that I am sorry, but I cannot support the idea of exposing the game to further cheats and hacks just so you can experience a better gameplay. I do however would like to see a short video of some of the issues you are describing if possible so I can better understand how its affecting you. I understand you might not be able to or just don't care, however if you can and do, I would greatly appreciate it.

If this game was more like D2\TL2, ect in that you could buy the game and either play locally (and cheat all you want) or play online and get banned, then this wouldn't be as big of an issue, unfortunately almost every large game like this is online only.

Are you and your few buddies going to keep the servers running by yourselves?

No you're not?

Then desync is a concern that needs to be fixed.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Are you and your few buddies going to keep the servers running by yourselves?

No you're not?

Then desync is a concern that needs to be fixed.

Desync has existed for what 3 years now and GGG isn't struggling for money that I know of. No one is disputing the fact improvements can and should be made, your missing the point of this thread. Instead you are using your personal issues with various problems in this game to post on every thread relevant to your problems, the issue with that is this shouldn't be another useless desync is problem please fix thread. This should be is desync such an issue that GGG change to allow for more cheaters thread. Instead it gets derailed by these 1-2 line responses not even relevant to this discussion.

People have learned to live with and play with desync over the past few years, whether it is increasing defenses, playing ranged, using quartz flask, ect. Not saying these are perfect solutions they aren't, but MOST people have moved on from this issue, I don't understand why this needs repeated in every single desync thread of the game. I understand this isn't the answer you are looking for or even want, but repeating yourself here isn't going to help your case. We get it we all get your concerned with desync, please keep on topic of why THIS thread was created.

Please do tell how this change will affect allow more cheaters. Move speed is capped by skills and character sheet and flask, anyone exceeding that speed is easily spotted. Any other effects this could have already exist in the opposite form (server -> client).

We've passed this part of the discussion already. Negative effects will be EXTREMELY minimal and positive changes would be drastic. In fact your case is already nullified when you consider map hacks already exist which is simply a way too get to your destination faster. You have no ground to stand on.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Please do tell how this change will affect anything negatively. Move speed is capped by skills and character sheet and flask, anyone exceeding that speed is easily spotted. Any other effects this could have already exist in the opposite form (server -> client).

We've passed this part of the discussion already. Negative effects will be EXTREMELY minimal and positive changes would be drastic.

Ok so according to your assumption GGG can just detect whenever a player is going over lets just say 100 MS and flag that as a cheater, but what if people just hack to push the limit, who needs movement speed boots when you can just trick the client into having faster movement speed, who needs quartz flask when you can trick the client into having phase affect. Who needs quality AA when movement speed no longer becomes important, who needs quicksilver flask in races when you can just go fast whenever you want.

We aren't past this until you realize that trusting the client won't happen. You don't know the effects will be EXTREMELY minimal that is an assumption and a rather large one at that.

The risk isn't worth the reward, the reward in the end is a little bit better gameplay in regards to positioning, but at a severe cost.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Please do tell how this change will affect anything negatively. Move speed is capped by skills and character sheet and flask, anyone exceeding that speed is easily spotted. Any other effects this could have already exist in the opposite form (server -> client).

We've passed this part of the discussion already. Negative effects will be EXTREMELY minimal and positive changes would be drastic.

Ok so according to your assumption GGG can just detect whenever a player is going over lets just say 100 MS and flag that as a cheater, but what if people just hack to push the limit, who needs movement speed boots when you can just trick the client into having faster movement speed, who needs quartz flask when you can trick the client into having phase affect. Who needs quality AA when movement speed no longer becomes important, who needs quicksilver flask in races when you can just go fast whenever you want.

We aren't past this until you realize that trusting the client won't happen. You don't know the effects will be EXTREMELY minimal that is an assumption and a rather large one at that.

The risk isn't worth the reward, the reward in the end is a little bit better gameplay in regards to positioning, but at a severe cost.

Flasks and charges are handled by server. Move speed changes and character speed base are also on server as are buffs and debuffs. Map hacks already give speed advantages to boot and already exist in the current game state.

Your argument is failing hard at this point, desperately grasping at straws for any reason. The debate is over, you lost.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Please do tell how this change will affect anything negatively. Move speed is capped by skills and character sheet and flask, anyone exceeding that speed is easily spotted. Any other effects this could have already exist in the opposite form (server -> client).

We've passed this part of the discussion already. Negative effects will be EXTREMELY minimal and positive changes would be drastic.

Ok so according to your assumption GGG can just detect whenever a player is going over lets just say 100 MS and flag that as a cheater, but what if people just hack to push the limit, who needs movement speed boots when you can just trick the client into having faster movement speed, who needs quartz flask when you can trick the client into having phase affect. Who needs quality AA when movement speed no longer becomes important, who needs quicksilver flask in races when you can just go fast whenever you want.

We aren't past this until you realize that trusting the client won't happen. You don't know the effects will be EXTREMELY minimal that is an assumption and a rather large one at that.

The risk isn't worth the reward, the reward in the end is a little bit better gameplay in regards to positioning, but at a severe cost.

Flasks and charges are handled by server. Move speed changes and character speed base are also on server as are buffs and debuffs. Map hacks already give speed advantages to boot and already exist in the current game state.

Your argument is failing hard at this point, desperately grasping at straws for any reason. The debate is over, you lost.

Yes because you simply know GGG's code inside and out to know what trusting the client for movement speed will do. You don't, I don't and neither does anyone that has responded to this thread. If the client is the ultimate trusted source of movement, then why can't you accept the fact the client might also have to be trusted for buff effects, movement speed effects and alike? How do you think the game would behave and differently if it trusted the client for only a portion of the movement speed your character has and has to CHECK with the server for the movement speed effects.

You can't have it both ways, either you trust the client for movement speed completely and pay the cost of not having server side to verify movement speed buff\positioning correction OR the situation is not much different then now where you trust the client for positioning with passive movement speed, but it has to check the server for buff like effects, do you think the later will improve your performance, if so why because the server will still be able to FORCE your client to a position it thinks its reasonable.

Yes, you will have to wait for movement speed effects to send both ways before applying, but guess what? You already do, you just aren't aware of it under the current system until you desync.

The debate is over, you can keep going and waste your own time as well as mine or you can accept it and move forward. The model I discussed is superior to what we have.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Yes, you will have to wait for movement speed effects to send both ways before applying, but guess what? You already do, you just aren't aware of it under the current system until you desync.

The debate is over, you can keep going and waste your own time as well as mine or you can accept it and move forward. The model we discussed is superior to what we have.

So if you have to wait on the effects of movement speed to apply until the server checks what is the difference between semi trusting the client, but not really and what we have now. You aren't FULLY trusting the client with your proposed model, I suspect those that have issues with desync will STILL have issues, especially with monster effects like knockback, stun, ect still having to be trusted from the server and the client having to WAIT to receive it.

You are simply just changing who is receiving the message last, it won't make a difference.

The discussion isn't over just because you say it is, sure its easier for you to just say its over so you don't have to try and find the failed logic in the proposed solution that doesn't make it right.

It doesn't matter. Better game play at the cost of a few people who may want to cheat--and risk losing their account--is worth it. You have still yet to justify the opposite in any way we can mutually agree on.

Also, you repeatedly use hyperbole to base your argument on. It wouldn't "open the floodgates" for cheaters. Relatively, we are only allowing a small trickle through, so that the entire game can flow better.

You guys just keep going back through your circular logic despite having been summarily shot down. Unless you can come up with some new (and logical or verifiable) line of thinking, there's probably nothing more worth saying. If you still feel the need for the last word, help yourselves. I'm not concerned about it. The case has been dutifully made.